| ▲ | scottLobster a day ago |
| If you have rent or a mortgage, there is little more important than paying it. Everything else comes after. Everyone alive in the developed world today grew up in a wondrous period of history where the middle class had many luxuries previously only afforded to those with inherited wealth. There are signs that period is ending. I'm not against things like learning to play an instrument, but if you're going to major in Music Theory, you better have a solid plan for a career on the other end. It can be a risky plan, but it has to be real with non-zero odds of success. It can't be just because you love playing the violin. |
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| ▲ | guitarlimeo a day ago | parent | next [-] |
| Music can do so much more than just paying rent. You can impress your future wife with your playing or singing. It's a form of therapy for many. It's true it won't pay the bills, but knowing one instrument is a good skill that differentiates you from others. |
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| ▲ | hnlmorg a day ago | parent | next [-] | | How are you going to impress your future wife with music skills if you can’t afford an instrument to play? Or are you suggesting one should also prioritise buying a guitar over paying rent too? | | |
| ▲ | guitarlimeo 19 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | In what world are you living in that you can't afford an instrument to play? You can get used acoustic guitars practically for free secondhand. You can practice singing for free, youtube has lots of great tutorials. Any kind of musical ability is a skill that differentiates you from the guy who doesn't have any. It widens your perspective, it allows you to talk about music more deeply (for example theory) with others, it creates joy to your life and you will gain bigger respect for the skills of other musicians. This all doesn't have anything to do with money and it doesn't have to. Not 100% of your time is needed to make money at all times. | | |
| ▲ | hnlmorg 9 hours ago | parent [-] | | > In what world are you living in that you can't afford an instrument to play? You can get used acoustic guitars practically for free secondhand. You can practice singing for free, youtube has lots of great tutorials. I’m older than YouTube and my parents didn’t have a lot of money. Never seen free guitars in any charity shops otherwise I’d have picked one up. Also singing isn’t playing an instrument. Which was specifically what the OP was discussing and thus specifically what I’m reply about. > Any kind of musical ability is a skill that differentiates you from the guy who doesn't have any. It widens your perspective, it allows you to talk about music more deeply (for example theory) with others, it creates joy to your life and you will gain bigger respect for the skills of other musicians. I agree. But that wasn’t the point being discussed. Also the same can also be said for sports. Or knitting. Or in fact any skill. I love music, it’s my biggest passion outside of computers. But it seems daft to argue music is uniquely different to any other hobby. For example, my wife actually hates music and it wasn’t my interest in it that she found attractive (ironically to this thread, it was actually my work ethic, because she saw someone stable who wanted kids too). > This all doesn't have anything to do with money and it doesn't have to. Not 100% of your time is needed to make money at all times. Unfortunately that’s exactly how some families do have to live. Not all of us are fortunate enough to have the free time to enjoy a hobby. Some people literally work most of their waking hours just to pay rent and buy food. Life can be really hard for some people. |
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| ▲ | melvinroest 20 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I beatbox and sometimes I sing. Though to be fair I am just being me. While I do have musical ability, I don't use that to impress people. It's a me thing. It keeps my brain juice flowing. | | |
| ▲ | hnlmorg 19 hours ago | parent [-] | | I’ve got no issues with people wanting to express themselves creatively. The point that was contentious was whether learning to play an instrument (specifically) was a core and essential skill. I was in my 20s before I learned to play a guitar because my family couldn’t afford one. So I had to prioritise other skills and those skills are what got me a lucrative career which allowed me the luxury of pursuing creative hobbies. It sucks that’s how life works. But that’s the world we live in. | | |
| ▲ | chickensong 17 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Nobody has said playing an instrument is a core and essential skill. If this thread was about that, I'd say learning to cook is a priority. This thread is about what you might teach your children, and predicting what works well in 20 years. There's no future where knowing how to play an instrument isn't a great thing. If you can't afford a guitar, don't get a guitar. There are cheaper instruments. Humans have figured out how to make it work across the ages, regardless of financial status. You might change careers several times in your life, but being able to play an instrument is always a viable way to enrich one's life. | | |
| ▲ | hnlmorg 10 hours ago | parent [-] | | > Nobody has said playing an instrument is a core and essential skill. That was literally the core premise of this thread. |
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| ▲ | guitarlimeo 19 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Ah responded elsewhere already, but sucks that you weren't able to afford a guitar at a young age. > So I had to prioritise other skills Do you think prioritizing those skills and music could have coexisted? Why not? Why does learning to play instruments take away from that? | | |
| ▲ | hnlmorg 10 hours ago | parent [-] | | Earning money vs paying for an instrument when you don’t already have any disposable income kind of dictates priorities |
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| ▲ | swat535 a day ago | parent | prev [-] | | Actually, it's more basic than that: you're not going to be able to afford having a wife and children if you can hardly pay your own rent. I wish we were living in a world were people could earn a living and follow their passion but capitalism doesn't allow for that. It's designed for consuming things and increasing profits, not for improving the well being of people. | | |
| ▲ | RealityVoid 10 hours ago | parent [-] | | This line of thinking has baked in the assumption that if something is not brining me money, it's not worth the effort. Obviously life is more than money so I am not sure why you would frame it that way. | | |
| ▲ | hnlmorg 5 hours ago | parent [-] | | That’s not the point people are making. They are saying a depressingly large number of people don’t earn enough to cover their essential daily expenses like rent and food despite working extremely long hours. And thus they do not have the same luxuries of time and disposable income that people in our position do. So to say “everyone has the time to learn an instrument” isn’t technically accurate. |
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| ▲ | imp0cat 20 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Jake the dog: "Music is powerful man. It speaks to a primal pit in our brains. It makes anyone wanna get up and get their knees goin'. Gotta get 'em pumpin' pumpin' pumpin', boompa boompa boom."
Music Hole: "Jake's right. A good song can really wrap people up in a mood, better than any words alone could."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kw2NFh95aHQ |
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| ▲ | method_capital a day ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| > "Everyone alive in the developed world today grew up in a wondrous period of history where the middle class had many luxuries previously only afforded to those with inherited wealth. There are signs that period is ending." People have been freaking out about this pending doom for as long as we've walked the earth. Most of it stems from either old age or political hyperventilating (both symptoms of perceived displacement). Humanity's still grinding forward ... faster than ever. |
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| ▲ | hnlmorg a day ago | parent [-] | | Try telling that to the 20-somethings who already cannot afford to get on the property ladder and are being told AI will replace what few skilled white collar roles were available to them. Times already have changed. It’s not people freaking out about a theoretical scenario. It’s already happened for those entering the job market today. | | |
| ▲ | ThrowawayR2 a day ago | parent | next [-] | | Izzat all? Man, kids these day sure have it easy. When I was a kid, we had to worry about getting nuked into glowing cinders in World War III, getting conscripted and blown to bits fighting the Soviet led Warsaw Pact, or not being able to get on the property ladder and being told that the Japanese will replace what few skilled blue and white collar jobs were available. | | |
| ▲ | hnlmorg 19 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | It’s definitely harder to get on the property ladder now than it has been for decades. This isn’t hyperbole, house prices have grown disproportionately to wages. This has been proven in literally every financial report about property prices. Eg https://mojomortgages.com/mortgage-news/homeownership-50-yea... And as for the fear of WW3, have you turned on the news recently? That fear is just as real now than it was in the 80s. | |
| ▲ | cyber_kinetist a day ago | parent | prev [-] | | I know that HN is quite American-centric, but for rest of the developed world (particularity Europe and East Asia), we're already worried about an impending world war. | | |
| ▲ | gnabgib a day ago | parent [-] | | You mean US. Canada, Mexico, Columbia, Brazil, Argentina & Chile have the same concerns. |
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| ▲ | elevation a day ago | parent | prev [-] | | > cannot afford to get on the property ladder The American Midwest would like a word. If you don't mind being a couple hours drive from anywhere Taylor Swift would play, you can find affordable property, a good community, and amazon prime service. Any town that lacks tech work opportunities will still have solid internet from Starlink to support remote work. There are awesome opportunities if you look. | | |
| ▲ | hnlmorg 20 hours ago | parent [-] | | Now those 20-somethings need to deal with US immigration too. Because most of the world don’t live in the USA. |
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| ▲ | UtopiaPunk a day ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I think becoming proficient in some form of artistic expression is very helpful for achieving self-actualization. My biggest frustration, currently, is a lack of time and energy to devote to my creative projects. I still give them some time, but between a full-time job, child care, and other day-to-day responsibilities, it is not as much as I would like. My wildest hope for society in my lifetime is that we will experience dramaticly shorter work weeks. Keynes predicted 15 hour work weeks by 2030 or so. If I could afford a modest life on only 15 hours of labor, and devote other time to family, friends, and art, I would feel so amazing. I'm skeptical of the claims of AI, but a society where a shorter work week is the norm would turn me into its biggest fan. Anyway, despite my frustration, the time I spend with my creative projects results in my greatest self-satisfaction, after the time I devote to raising my children. And the creative outlets I pursue today are directly related to the artistic skills I developed in my youth (including music). So yeah, it probably won't pay the bills, but there's much more important things in life than bills. |
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| ▲ | chickensong a day ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I'm not suggesting a career. I'm saying those three things are always valuable to learn. |
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| ▲ | criddell a day ago | parent [-] | | Somehow they read "learning a musical instrument" as "majoring in music". |
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| ▲ | melvinroest 20 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| On the one hand yea, but on the other hand, society is trying to create a situation where the biggest necessities are less of a burden. The big 4 IMO are: food, water, air, sleep. I get water out of the tap. It costs a lot less for me to get clean water than it is costing people 500 years ago (on average). At least that's my guess anyway. |
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| ▲ | 0c3ca83 a day ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| The traditional career for people studying music theory is acquiring wealthy parents. |
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| ▲ | amanaplanacanal 12 hours ago | parent [-] | | That applies to all of the arts. But... Far more people do some sort of art as a hobby than will ever make a career out if it. |
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| ▲ | myersj a day ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Your college major doesn't determine your career path, and the sooner people stop pretending that they are necessarily correlated, the better. |
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| ▲ | NetMageSCW a day ago | parent | prev [-] |
| That’s called strawmanning. |