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| ▲ | throw0101c 4 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | > Zstd is worth a lot of other's people's pain. "Amnesty report finds Facebook amplified hate ahead of Rohingya massacre in Myanmar": * https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/amnesty-report-finds-face... * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rohingya_genocide#Facebook_con... | | |
| ▲ | iugtmkbdfil834 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | What is your point? That zstd cannot exist? That it shouldn't? I can't read minds you know. | | |
| ▲ | TheOtherHobbes 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | A lot of people have died horribly, millions, perhaps billions of lives have been affected negatively, democracies have been subverted, but at least we got a nice compression algorithm? And React, although the jury remains out on whether that's a transformative technology or... not. | | | |
| ▲ | throw0101c 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | > What is your point? That zstd cannot exist? That it shouldn't? I can't read minds you know. Would it be better that: * zstd exists because Meta exists (net benefiting over other people's pain — including possibly the 'pain' of genocide), or * a genocide did not happen (or was not as bad) because Meta did not exist (but we never got zstd)? | | |
| ▲ | iugtmkbdfil834 an hour ago | parent [-] | | Friend, there is no better. There is just this. I know it is hard for you to hear me, but hear me for I do have something to tell you. We do not live in a perfect world. That is a simple fact, but I need you to accept that fact before we have a chance to communicate. I don't mean me reading, you responding ad infinitum. No. I mean communicating. Can you do that for me? Because if you are gonna give me tired binary choices along the lines of: 1) would you rather have a cookie
2) would you rather go to work It is not much of a choice. It is a cute rhetoric, but it is not the reality in which we live. Fucking qed. | | |
| ▲ | throw0101c an hour ago | parent [-] | | > Friend, there is no better. There is just this. I know it is hard for you to hear me, but hear me for I do have something to tell you. This sub-thread started with: > Zstd is worth a lot of other's people's pain. The (philosophical/theoretical) debate/discussion is about the 'quantity' of "people's pain", and how much of it is it worth for having Zstd (and other things that have come out of Meta/FB). What is the 'trade-off' (if any) between getting good and accepting evil? (Assuming "good" and "evil" even exist.) * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ones_Who_Walk_Away_from_Om... | | |
| ▲ | iugtmkbdfil834 an hour ago | parent [-] | | First, it started with grandparent stating: "none of those contributions are worth the pain that they have caused." Which a little excessive and I take personal issue with never, all, and none when someone writes that -- out of principle. Second, are we talking about its quantity or quality, because I posit that big numbers aint everything. |
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| ▲ | benatkin 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Thanks for mentioning that. It reinforces my desire to avoid zstd because of its connection to Facebook. | | | |
| ▲ | miltonlost 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | "Zstd is worth a lot of other's people's pain." in response to a post about how Facebook helped enable ethnic cleansing makes you look sociopathic. You just said "this tech is worth the deaths of thousands!!!!" | | |
| ▲ | iugtmkbdfil834 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | And? I stand by my what is your point? edit: I am not even baiting you man. I am just not sure why you have a beein your bonnet. | | |
| ▲ | vel0city 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | If it took you pulling the trigger, how many people would you murder to make a slightly better compression algorithm? If you outsourced the murder to someone else, how many people would you be OK with murdering? Wouldn't it be better if we didn't continue to support corporations who enable genocide around the world? Now, ultimately I'll still end up using zstd. I'm not happy about it's ties to Facebook. But it's code that exists out there now, I don't see the reason to not use it. But I'll still try and avoid giving Facebook any money or praise. I don't give praise to Facebook engineers, at least not ones recently working there. They're massively paid in blood money, and they should already understand that by now. Their products hurt societies around the world, and they don't actually change. | | |
| ▲ | iugtmkbdfil834 an hour ago | parent [-] | | Here we go. You're wearing shoes, aren't you? Own a smartphone? Drive a hybrid? Use a computer? Ever eaten a banana? Bought something from Amazon? Turned on the air conditioning? Somewhere down those supply chains, someone suffered for your convenience. Every purchase is an atrocity by proxy. Every breath is stolen oxygen. Every step displaces an innocent insect. Your very existence is an ongoing ecological war crime. And you have the audacity to sit there, wearing pants assembled by strangers, pretending your hands are clean? Repent, sinner. Atone. | | |
| ▲ | vel0city an hour ago | parent [-] | | > You're wearing shoes, aren't you? Not currently, no. But when I do, I do bother actually trying to check sources. The last things on my feet were sandals purchased from the people who actually made them. > Every purchase is an atrocity by proxy. I mean, I understand tHeRe Is nO eThIcAl CoNsUmPtIoN uNdEr CaPitAlIsM. Sure. But when you know a specific supplier is a bad actor, has been pointed out as a bad actor, and refuses to change, do you continue to support that bad actor when you have tons options? Do you continue choosing to champion them on forums online, despite knowing their entire product line is "we're going to throw kids into an emotionally damaging blender, sow discontent in your community, help ruin mental health globally, support genocidal maniacs overseas, spread massive disinformation, and overall damage everything you care about!" Do you just pour your used motor oil down the storm drains because, hey, the environment is fucked anyways, or do you at least try to reduce your impact? And once again, I even mentioned I'll continue to use zstd. I totally get that by using zstd I'm not directly supporting these things. But acting like "hey Facebook is great and its perfectly fine tons of people died directly to finance zstd's development" is IMO a bad take on the whole situation. So once again I ask, if it took you pulling the trigger, how many people would you personally murder to have zstd be financed, since you seem perfectly OK with trading human lives for compression algorithms? Or would you argue we shouldn't be trading lives for compression algorithms in the first place, and we should press on those corporations who do make money off such things to stop doing so instead of arguing we should just accept it? | | |
| ▲ | iugtmkbdfil834 an hour ago | parent [-] | | << I even mentioned I'll continue to use zstd. I totally get that by using zstd I'm not directly supporting these things. But acting like "hey Facebook is great and its perfectly fine tons of people died directly to finance zstd's development" is IMO a bad take on the whole situation. Apologies, it is possible that I mistook you for another zealot. I obviously don't really disagree, but I find the holier than thou stance difficult to approach neutrally. << if it took you pulling the trigger, how many people would you personally murder to have zstd be financed, None. Here the hypothetical is simple. | | |
| ▲ | vel0city an hour ago | parent [-] | | > None. Here the hypothetical is simple. This doesn't square with your "Zstd is worth a lot of other's people's pain" earlier statement. So what is it, you just don't care to actually be the one to inflict such pain? You're entirely OK with the idea that by championing zstd and telling people "its worth a lot of other's people's pain", knowing that by other's people's pain we're talking genocide, suicide, and deaths due to misinformation, so long as its not you specifically having to do that? Why is that? You've already stated its definitely worth it. Just not worth it for you to pull the trigger, but worth it enough for you to champion somebody else to pull the trigger? Personally I'd never say a compression algorithm is worth a genocide. | | |
| ▲ | iugtmkbdfil834 21 minutes ago | parent [-] | | And we were doing so well. << I even mentioned I'll continue to use zstd. I totally get that by using zstd I'm not directly supporting these things. But acting like "hey Facebook is great and its perfectly fine tons of people died directly to finance zstd's development" is IMO a bad take on the whole situation. Then, based on your line of argumentation, you are simply a hypocrite; very pedestrian ( I am personally disappointed ). You are perfectly ok with using zstd knowing that it indirectly supports company and the evil deeds it bestows upon the world while knowing it to be true AND lecturing others about the evil deeds they do. << You've already stated its definitely worth it. Just not worth it for you to pull the trigger, but worth it enough for you to champion somebody else to pull the trigger? Again, are you using a computer terminal to type those letters in? Are those letters worth the lives that made it possible for you to have this philosophical treatise on why you feel morally superior to me? Yes? Then maybe you shouldn't, because you explicitly are not. You are just like all the other kids out there unable to actually stand by what you claim to believe. Me? I just live it. << Personally I'd never say a compression algorithm is worth a genocide. You know.. I have rather fascinating realization. Maybe it is true that you would never say it. That is simply not done. You would just let it happen should the compression compressed enough. How do I know? You already stated you will continue to use it. Heh. Sorry man. I expected better. |
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