Remix.run Logo
▲ thefz 3 hours ago

"X are spending more money to Y worse Z" is really the distillation of life under capitalism.

▲Panzer04 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I hate these glib comments that don't remotely reflect reality.

Go look at the goods people got in countries that didn't practice capitalism. They were worse in almost every way, more expensive if you could get them and often the things people wanted were completely unavailable because there was no market incentive informing production.

In my experience, this sort of comment is usually followed up by some personal preference of the commenter. Great. I don't want the same thing, so I guess something has to mediate the resource allocation and effort of society towards providing that want/need at a certain quality/price.. and guess how we do that?

▲causesothere 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Are you looking at the USSR and countries that followed its model?

I don't think you can look at any authoritarian regime and make assumptions about how an economic system performs. The autocratic features tend to cause society to break down.

For an actual anarchist production model, look no further than Open Source. It's built by people who self organize, to solve problems that are real (and often to make silly, inefficient things). It's often (but not always) motivated by something other than profit. It's people who believe in a credo organizing themselves around that credo and building the tools to sustain that credo.

But imagine if open source was behind an autocrat, there's no way it'd be nearly as rich or flourishing.

▲xethos an hour ago | parent [-]

> imagine if open source was behind an autocrat, there's no way it'd be nearly as rich or flourishing

Maybe not the best argument to anyone responding from their Linux computers, as Torvalds is generally viewed as Benevolent Dictator For Life.

I'd look for more examples, but using Wikipedia for any sourcing feels too on-the-nose, considering Jimmy Wales seems to be in a similar BDFL position

▲lazyasciiart 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

State regulations, to prevent market distortions like monopolies, price fixing, lying about products and selling poisoned food, among other things?

▲thefz 5 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

"goods people got in countries that didn't practice capitalism" are generally built to last.

> something has to mediate the resource allocation and effort of society towards providing that want/need at a certain quality/price

Yeah, exactly, not "squeezing every last bit of value out of a product to appease the shareholders", see "enshittification".

▲strictnein 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The device you're currently using is worse than the equivalent model was 10 years ago?

Over 30 years ago my family spent an _extra_ $1000 (in ~1993 dollars) on a computer system to upgrade from a 15" CRT to a 17" and increase the RAM from 16MB to 32MB.

▲thefz 4 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

> The device you're currently using is worse than the equivalent model was 10 years ago?

It is increasingly less and less mine at every iteration. I owned every bit of my dad's 386.

▲Ekaros 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Well it lasted 10 years less for pretty much same thing... Talking about my 27" 1440p monitor. Dell is still working. The 4 year old Asus have most likely some type of power issue and doesn't even want to start.

▲NackerHughes 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The device I'm currently using has no headphone jack, no removable battery, no removable memory, no removable storage, a single solitary USB-A port and a locked-down BIOS that only lets you install Windows by default. All in the name of profit.

Yes, the device I'm currently using is worse than the equivalent model was 10 years ago. Thanks, capitalism.

▲Rohansi 2 hours ago | parent [-]

Why did you buy it then? There are systems on the market still that have none of these issues.

▲watwut an hour ago | parent [-]

Which ones? I would happily use the phone I had 10 years ago. It was smaller, fit into a pocket better and literally the only meaningful thing that got better in between is camera.

And if I go further into history, I loved my phone with physical querty keyboard (nokia). There is no such thing on the market now, but I would love physical keyboard again.

▲xethos an hour ago | parent [-]

> I would happily use the phone I had 10 years ago

> There is no such thing on the market now

Good news, the ~12-year-old BlackBerry Q20 is back, and shipping, [0] with an updated motherboard. It's a real product, not vaporware; I have two. It has a headphone jack, a small form-factor, removable micro-SD card slot, and a battery that takes little more than a guitar pick and #0 Philips screwdriver to replace.

Parts are cheap as hell as well, with a new screen costing under $25USD, and replacement keyboards under $30.

There's multiple clean sheet designs [1,2] of similar devices as well.

Though I expect them to be treated like fun little runabout cars: made for (typically young) people that can't justify the cost, leaving nobody to buy them, who then bemoan their discontinuation... due to poor sales

[0] https://zinwa.com/product/q25-full-device/

[1] https://zinwa.com/product/p26-full-device-pre-order/

[2] https://www.clicksphone.com/ca/communicator

▲t-writescode 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Now compare clothing. Or Pyrex. Or the chocolate in candy bars.

▲tastyfreeze 2 hours ago | parent [-]

Stop buying brands that coast on past clout.

▲WalterBright 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Sounds like a lucrative business opportunity to sell a higher quality product at a lower price!

▲john01dav 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Regulatory capture (occasionally outright banning a superior product, but usually just raising the cost of competition) as well as anti-competition wrapped up in acquisition culture severely impair this.

▲t-writescode 2 hours ago | parent [-]

Namely, these and monopolies are the end-stage of unregulated Capitalism. The big guy becomes evil and makes it so no small guy can ever enter the stage again.

It’s a major part of why we have anti-trust law, because the country knew where it would all go.

▲WalterBright 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

> The big guy becomes evil and makes it so no small guy can ever enter the stage again.

If you look at the top 10 companies by market cap every decade, you'll see the churn in them. The lineup in 1910:

• United States Steel Corporation • Standard Oil Company • American Telephone and Telegraph Company (AT&T) • Union Pacific Railroad / Pennsylvania Railroad • International Mercantile Marine Co. • American Tobacco Company • U.S. Rubber Co. • Central Leather Company • Amalgamated Copper Mining Company

And today:

1. Nvidia – ~$4.57 trillion 2. Apple Inc. (AAPL) – ~$4.04 trillion 3. Alphabet Inc. (GOOGL / GOOG) – ~$3.79 trillion 4. Microsoft Corp. (MSFT) – ~$3.63 trillion 5. Amazon.com Inc. (AMZN) – ~$2.70 trillion 6. Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Co. (TSMC / 2330.TW) – ~$2.14 trillion 7. Meta Platforms Inc. (META) – ~$1.81 trillion 8. Broadcom Inc. (AVGO) – ~$1.57 trillion 9. Tesla Inc. (TSLA) – ~$1.40 trillion 10. Eli Lilly and Co. (LLY) – ~$1.18 trillion

▲WalterBright 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> no small guy can ever enter the stage again

Musk showed that to be wrong.

▲grubbydiff 2 hours ago | parent [-]

100%. Musk showed that you don't have to be an elected official in the federal government to be willfully complicit in deaths of hundreds of thousands around the globe.

▲strictnein 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Where is this place that has unregulated Capitalism?

▲lazyasciiart 2 hours ago | parent [-]

Somalia is the traditional answer.

▲otterley 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

That already exists. If it weren’t for punitive tariffs, we’d already be enjoying cheap, high quality Chinese vehicles in the U.S. and Canada, like many other countries do already.

▲kurthr 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Just because a group claims an -ist or puts an -ism in their name doesn't make them so. The NAZIs weren't socialist, they locked them up. The CCP isn't communist except in name. Russia has been an oligarchy since before the wall fell.

And what we have in the US right now is not a free market, nor a well regulated and efficient one. You can call it crony capitalism, if you want, but when banks are bailed out to the tune of $Ts, Federal deficit spending is responsible for "positive" economic growth, and speculative companies are shoved into the indexes that make up what savings the working class has, it barely makes the cut.

Plenty of more "socialist" places with with free healthcare and rule of law, are more market capitalist. Enshitification happens where it is allowed to, because it is allowed to.

▲zeroonetwothree 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Yes capitalism is certainly known for continually decreasing quality of goods. That must be why life was so much better in 1800.

▲thefz 2 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

I am sure that your life is better now thanks to the spy device always in your pocket and not because of the advances in medicine, education, human rights...

▲blltprfmnk 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Industrialization and automation brought down the cost of goods, making them much more accessible to more people.

But they absolutely simultaneously resulted in lower quality goods in many areas.

As an example, people used to buy hand crafted furniture after buying an home, and it lasted them a lifetime because it was made with such high quality material and with such craftsmanship. It was also very expensive, which motivated keeping it for so long and passing it on to future generations.

Today the furniture we buy is much less expensive as a percentage of income but the quality is crap and you may end up needing to replace it once the finish has worn off because refinishing would be as expensive as buying another crap quality piece of furniture.

The same goes for clothing and many other goods.

It’s not that nobody makes any high quality goods anymore, but they are several times the price and are very low volume because of the cheap crappy alternatives.

▲astrange 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

> Today the furniture we buy is much less expensive as a percentage of income but the quality is crap and you may end up needing to replace it once the finish has worn off because refinishing would be as expensive as buying another crap quality piece of furniture.

But that's not a problem and is likely a good thing. eg it lets you move more often which reduces your commute.

Though none of my Ikea furniture has ever failed and most of it is ~15 years old.

▲Rohansi 2 hours ago | parent [-]

> But that's not a problem and is likely a good thing. eg it lets you move more often which reduces your commute.

You can still move if furniture was more expensive and higher quality. You'd be able to sell what you have and buy new or used wherever you move. Most furniture is very consumable now so you just throw it away and buy new. You can't restore old furniture so the used market is full of stuff nobody really wants if they have the choice.

▲fc417fc802 2 hours ago | parent [-]

The used market in every city I've ever lived in has had plenty of forever furniture but it isn't cheap. Which is exactly what you'd expect.

▲fc417fc802 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> because refinishing would be as expensive as buying another crap quality piece of furniture.

In most cases refinishing won't even be an option. Veneered plywood is bad enough but MDF doesn't even have that and some cheap end tables and interior doors are literally just a sheet of veneer affixed to cardboard ribs.

Not that I'm complaining. Those end tables are seriously impressive pieces of engineering given what they're made of and can had for barely more than pocket change.

▲WalterBright 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

> It was also very expensive

> but they are several times the price and are very low volume because of the cheap crappy alternatives

So high quality goods were expensive and still are expensive.

Not sure what your point is.