| ▲ | skeledrew 4 hours ago |
| Technically it's just a role change. You're now the project manager or something, not the developer. It isn't a project manager's job to understand the code, only to ensure it does what it should and doesn't do what it shouldn't. And to ensure the developers, etc str unblocked and doing well. Embrace the new role. |
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| ▲ | gonzalohm 4 hours ago | parent | next [-] |
| Why would you need to embrace something forced upon you? |
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| ▲ | testplzignore 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | There is no escape from Dario's basement. It's best just to accept our fate. Rub the lotion on our skin or else we get the hose again. | | |
| ▲ | gonzalohm 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | We just need to hold until people realize the crappy codebases that AI is generating | | |
| ▲ | nunez 10 minutes ago | parent [-] | | I agree with this. The tech debt being accumulated is astronomical. If ASI or whatever doesn't work...developers will be back on the menu. |
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| ▲ | jimnotgym 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Perhaps it will make it easier to cope with? Fighting something beyond your control is pretty exhausting | | |
| ▲ | gonzalohm 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | Or just ignore AI. As long as you do your job, who cares if you use AI or not |
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| ▲ | episteme 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | So you can pay rent? | |
| ▲ | skeledrew 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | In most workplaces, when supervisor/boss says "we need you working over here now; you start tomorrow", you either embrace or quit. Again, nothing fundamentally different. | | |
| ▲ | gonzalohm 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | And in most jobs, you don't get promoted to manager if you don't want to | | |
| ▲ | skeledrew 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | Maybe not, but things and times change. If you're made obsolete in one role then you better be ready to move on to another. |
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| ▲ | bsoles 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Then whose role is it now to understand the code? |
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| ▲ | nunez 9 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | That's the neat part; you don't! Same thing is happening in academia. | |
| ▲ | skeledrew 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | How much understanding is needed? If it works as specified (you did a complete spec and occasional check-ins to ensure things are on track and then tested the delivery, right?), then what more is needed? | | |
| ▲ | joshuahedlund 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Understanding is needed when something breaks and you need to fix it immediately. Otherwise you become a meat proxy and now you’ve added Anthropic’s uptime as a single point of failure to your application. | | |
| ▲ | krapp 5 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | >Otherwise you become a meat proxy and now you’ve added Anthropic’s uptime as a single point of failure to your application. Yes. We're all going to become meat proxies and we're all going to add LLM service uptime as a single point of failure to... every aspect of our technological civilization. But it's all worth it because Grok will let you force feminize Draco Malfoy into a anime girl and that's worth never understanding anything again. | |
| ▲ | skeledrew 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Subscribe to multiple providers, and maybe even self-host :). | |
| ▲ | misiti3780 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | i refuse to be a meat proxy! |
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| ▲ | AstroBen 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | So you just click around the UI, assuming there is one? Can you break down for me exactly how the unit and integration tests are made? Do you ask the AI what to assert? | | |
| ▲ | skeledrew 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | > exactly how the unit and integration tests are made There should be enough detail in the spec that it's pretty obvious. And unlike - many - human devs, agents don't shy away from writing tests. Add a coverage guardrail and tell them to use red/green TDD and you're already a good way there. The main thing is to ensure shared understanding, so they also know business expectations and write appropriate tests. And... nothing here is really specific to an agent, as a human dev also needs sufficient guidance (tailored to their experience level). | | |
| ▲ | AstroBen 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | This is just pure vibe coding and trying to convince yourself it's quality work. AI can't be trusted to go from an English written spec to tests Here[0] we have benchmarks for AI writing tests for code that already has the correct behavior. Best case scenario is that they're at 67% with Fable, and that's with the highest quality specification we could possibly have (code). English is far more ambiguous [0]: https://labs.scale.com/leaderboard/sweatlas-tw | | |
| ▲ | skeledrew 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | Maybe you don't trust them to, but they can go from spec to tests; I've made them (even if it initially took extra prompting and scrutiny). And ultimately tests are just a proxy to checking that X works, written by devs for devs; actually trying X is something to be done by QA and/or project/product manager before shipping. |
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| ▲ | bluefirebrand 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | > (you did a complete spec and occasional check-ins to ensure things are on track and then tested the delivery, right?) I have never in my career been afforded the time to make a complete spec. | | |
| ▲ | skeledrew 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | That's now a key task with this new role. Unless winging it into slop is acceptable. |
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| ▲ | lijok 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Ah yes the Santa dev fallacy. Noone understood the code to begin with. People understand the concepts, the primitives, the "theory" as Naur said, the basis upon which a project is built. Noone ever understood a codebase worth understanding to begin with. | | |
| ▲ | filoeleven an hour ago | parent [-] | | I'd like to meet Noone someday. He's done so many amazing things. Noone always gets it right, Noone went there after that horrible incident, Noone actually dances like that... |
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| ▲ | jimbokun 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Project managers just take the engineers word for it. |
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| ▲ | AstroBen 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | And engineers have a lot of leeway to just make shit up and the PM would have no idea until it blows up. | |
| ▲ | skeledrew 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | So the million dollar question: will you (ie those getting pushed into the role) continue that trend? |
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| ▲ | bigwheels 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
| Except you can't blame Claude when sh-- hits the fan. |
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