The cost vs performance is insane for all these new models. I’ve been using Deepseek Flash 1017 and it does whole projects and asks for $0.10 on US provider with ZDR on Openrouter. I convinced a few friends to drop their Claude $20 subscription because DS Flash 1017 brings so much better value. They can still use Opus 5.5 for planning though each call will cost north of $2. Excited to try this model out too once there are US providers.

▲ redox99 5 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Opus 5.5 is according to AA cost per task, 23x more expensive than Deepseek with max effort (which is dumb, you shouldn't use) and 13x more expensive on xhigh.

Claude sub has a 60x subsidy, so a $20 sub gives you $1200 in API.

Based on this math, Claude sub is a much better deal than Deepseek. And it's a stronger model of course.

▲ RussianCow 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

> Claude sub has a 60x subsidy, so a $20 sub gives you $1200 in API.

This is only true if you max out the plan, which requires working around awkward 5-hour and weekly limits. For side projects, sure, you can use a Ralph loop or whatever and just continue when the window resets. For work, I can't afford to simply stop working when I hit my limit. And using Claude at API prices is prohibitively expensive.

Personally, I have a $20/month OpenAI subscription that I supplement with DeepSeek V4.1 Flash (currently using CoralBricks as the provider since it's fast and I'm grandfathered into their $0 cache read pricing). It's working out rather well so far. Even when I use DS all day as my primary model, I only pay about $1/day, which is roughly equivalent to what I pay for the sub anyway (but with no limits).

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viraptor an hour ago | parent | next [-]

You could also go with mimo-2.6-pro for cheaper and often better results.

	▲	RussianCow an hour ago \| parent [-]
		I tried it but it's way too slow for me. DeepSeek V4.1 Flash is an order of magnitude faster, and the modest difference in intelligence isn't worth it to me for most use cases.

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himata4113 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

I am sorry, but if you're given $1200 in api for free I wouldn't consider that as working around flakey limits especially when you only need to max out the 5 hour limit 5 times a week.

	▲	RussianCow 3 hours ago \| parent [-]
		I don't understand what you're saying. If I hit my 5-hour limit in 2 hours, I still need to get work done for the other 3. I'm not going to sit there and wait for my limit to reset.

▲ lukewarm707 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I don't like the feeling of being watched, which unfortunately rules out the AI subscriptions for me.

For some reason it just creeps me out knowing that someone is recording me and reading my conversations.

▲ yhager 3 hours ago | parent [-]

isn't that what ZDR is for? (assuming you trust that)

▲ traceroute66 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

> isn't that what ZDR is for? (assuming you trust that)

ZDR is:

    1. A pinky-promise you have no way of verifying
    2. A contract term, which means its still subject to the good-old "lawful request or court order" clauses
    3. Subject to arbitrary provider exceptions ... see Anthropic and Fable

What you really want (assuming you can't afford your own servers and datacentre space) is secure enclave processing:

See Tinfoil (US)[1] or Privatemode (Germany)[2].

[1] https://tinfoil.sh/ [2] https://www.privatemode.ai/

	▲	nullc 2 hours ago \| parent [-]
		See the sibling comment, tinfoil added scanning inside the enclave.

▲ lukewarm707 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Yes, in theory. The big AI company subscriptions do not offer that, they all watch you unless you pay more for the API. The only exception I have seen for big AI is Grok teams.

However the way it is going, there will not even be private APIs, just recording and watching all the time.

Anthropic is unsurprisingly leading the race to the bottom of the barrel by requiring moderator reviews for API customers. Apparently everyone at GCP and AWS complied.

GCP has just followed and done the same thing on Gemini Argon. No CMEK allowed. Azure has some ZDR but presumably they are restricting it.

Some neoclouds are still standing but some are also regressing by using server-side scanning to prompt human review.

There are two/three private TEE providers. One of them (Tinfoil) just put server-side scanning inside the enclave for the consumer product. The API is good for now, I am taking it as notice from them to get off the service before they start logging everything.

▲ switchbak 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I pay API rates via OpenRouter / Fireworks, and I find it challenging to hit the $20 mark.

If I was to do anywhere near that kind of work on Anthropic, I'd find myself running out of tokens, waiting days to continue working, and leaning on their el-crap models to try to avoid running out again. This happens all the time.

This way I get to leverage DS for nearly all my work, benefit from its far superior latencies, and I still get to lean on OpenAPI / Anthropic or whatever SOTA models I want when I need them.

The only time that really falls down is if I'm doing huge amounts of real novel work, which hasn't been the case for a while.

	▲	verdverm 4 hours ago \| parent [-]
		Unfortunately, Fireworks is not keeping up with new models the last few months. When we selected them as a vendor, they were crushing it, new models were available in 1-2 days. Now they want us to "request" them in Discord, instead of making them all available. I use OpenCode at home, this is one of the reasons. Their Ember-1 model (Kimi K3 tuned to think less) hallucinates to high hell, I have no trust of it, nowhere to provide feedback, despite their launch post saying they would like feedback. That they loudly and proudly claim their internal devs notice no difference is a huge red flag for me. It says there is too much eyes free coding, I noticed the hallucinations and false claims of task completion immediately.

▲ melbourne_mat 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Isn't a Claude subscription limited to non work / small side projects though? Being regularly rate limited has a major impact on productivity

	▲	nimchimpsky 2 hours ago \| parent [-]
		[dead]

▲ genxy 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

He is trying to be faster than his friends, not the bear.

▲ aleqs 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Just because anthropic charges absurd consumer API prices, doesn't mean their subscription is a 'subsidy' lmao.

I'm a heavy Claude/anthropic user, I max out my 20x max plan in 1-2 days at this point. The OpenCode Go $40 plan with DeepSeek flash is like 2x the value of the Claude max 20x plan for how much I actually get out of it, for 1/5 the price.

DeepSeek literally like 10x better value than Claude/Anthropic.

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A_D_E_P_T 4 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I'm the same way re: bottoming out my 20x Max plan in ~2 days. I'm having better luck lately, though. What helped was using Opus 5.5 for planning and orchestration, and Haiku 5.5 for all of the simple stuff. Claude doesn't default to this -- the default is that it uses the same model for everything -- you have to give it specific instructions.

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redox99 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

My math takes that into account. It's 20x more expensive but you get 60x subsidy on subs. I.e you can do more tasks on a $20 claude sub than with $20 in deepseek API.

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aleqs 4 hours ago | parent [-]

Cool 'math' but that's not how imaginary numbers work.

	▲	Natfan 2 hours ago \| parent [-]
		if the numbers are imaginary, then they can work however one wants!

▲ surgical_fire 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Except you get hamstrung by quotas. Which is a pain in the ass, and a massive waste of time.

▲ MisterMunchkin 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Lmao this is real anslopic math.

	▲	InsideOutSanta 4 hours ago \| parent [-]
		It's just pointing out how heavily subsidized subscriptions are. I often read about how much value people get from DeepSeek, but when I try to use it, I end up spending the amount I'd pay for a subscription much faster. DeepSeek is really cheap when you compare API pricing, but it's more expensive than a subsidized Anthropic or OpenAI subscription.

▲ ilitirit 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I suspect that we may soon be seeing a modern version of VHS vs Betamax. Betamax was better quality, but VHS beat it in virtually every other metric that mattered to most consumers.

(yes, I'm aware the analogy isn't perfect for many reasons)

▲ MrZander 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

What harness do you use to drive the models?

	▲	syntaxing 18 minutes ago \| parent [-]
		Opencode but mainly because I"m used to it from work. I also use Pi and OMP

▲ nimchimpsky 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

[dead]