I would love a world, where I while waiting at the traffic stop can breathe clean air. It’s sad to see that in the US the ev incentives are gone.

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mattlondon an hour ago | parent | next [-]

To be honest, in my experience, you don't need the incentives. Like what more do you actually need? Cheaper, faster, smoother, quieter, wake up every day to a full "tank", less things to go wrong. They're just better now - no one can deny that apart from absolute die-hard "petrol heads".

It's not like driving an EV has any actual downsides Vs a gasoline car any more? Yes yes I am sure people will reply saying how they need to drive 900 miles every day without stopping once while towing a trailer at 100mph etc. Most people don't need to do that, but hey enjoy spending your life doing that if that's your thing.

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Aaargh20318 an hour ago | parent | next [-]

> It's not like driving an EV has any actual downsides Vs a gasoline car any more?

Driving, no. Buying, yes. I bought a used car for €2600 8 years ago and it’s still going strong. That won’t buy me an EV. I drive maybe 1000 kilometers a year, the difference in fuel costs doesn’t make a dent in the difference in the initial purchase.

	▲	mattlondon 33 minutes ago \| parent \| next [-]
		You totally can get an EV for those sort of prices on the used market, e.g. https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-search?body-type=&channel=c... No need to worry about cam belts or oil changes or spark plugs or mice eating your air filter or petrol going stale in the tank or replacing fuel filters or 12v batteries going flat if you don't drive them for at least 20 mins once every 10 days etc.
	▲	tpm 39 minutes ago \| parent \| prev [-]
		> That won’t buy me an EV. for now, but maybe in a few years it will

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carlosjobim an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

You need the money to buy one. Europeans do not have much money, and less and less of the working population have the employment arrangements which the banks demand to allow them to get a nice car loan, even if they wanted to borrow money for a new car. Gas vehicles can be purchased used from the past three decades.

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Aaargh20318 an hour ago | parent [-]

Taking out a loan for something that depreciates as fast as a car seems like the dumbest thing a person could do.

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carlosjobim an hour ago | parent [-]

Well then the enlightened hacker argument simply turns into: "People who can't afford an electric car are stupid".

	▲	overfeed 3 minutes ago \| parent [-]
		Or more charitably to the consumers: "Having all EVs priced as luxury vehicles is stupid." Fortunately, non-American manufacturers are doing something about this, while Americans continue to dream about an electric Ford Maverick.

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thraway3837 an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

It's not even about the incentives at this point. Americans in general are kind of dumb. The ones who aren't dumb have been driving EVs for a decade+. The rest are still "oh 300 miles isn't enough for me" "oh the cold kills the range by 10% oh no I'm going to get stuck" "oh, I have severe range anxiety". And these are all smart Harvard, Johns Hopkins educated people with multiple degrees. Not yokels.

People are out here spending $40k on a Camry and $50k on a Plugin Rav4 :facepalm:

99% of EV drivers (there is full data to support this so its not just an anecdotal claim) want another EV for their next car.

Once you've driven any EV, you will never want to go back to a gas car. Even if it's not for environmental reasons, the tech, smoothness, quiet are just magnitudes better than any gas car.

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theK 30 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

Well, to be fair we Europeans kinda topped that by doing everything right and then in months killing all regulations that drove those things. #TechnologyOpenness

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baq an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

they aren't dumb at all, they count their dollars. they see cheap gas guzzlers, they buy them because they're cheap and gas is cheap. this is smart!

tax the gas guzzlers, tax gas, subsidize EVs and watch Americans rush to the dealerships to get EVs.

	▲	theK 23 minutes ago \| parent [-]
		That is correct. I think the alleged "dumbess" comes most from voting for the people that won't do the things you mentioned in your second paragraph. But as I always say, it is not a property exclusive to US citizens. currently it looks like there is a drinking contest on which country will do the most ridiculous election result. The US started it but Germany said "halt meine Leberwurscht" and whent straigt to the top.

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1over137 an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Tailpipe emissions are only half of it. The brake and tyre dust is the second half, and not solved by EVs.

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bdamm an hour ago | parent | next [-]

Brake dust is at least mostly solved by EVs, because regenerative braking does the vast majority of the braking work, thus no dust. Tire dust is real, but is going to be there no matter what kind of powertrain a vehicle has. EVs have more wear, but it is marginal. A Tesla Model 3 weighs less than any new pickup truck for sale today.

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gloxkiqcza an hour ago | parent [-]

> A Tesla Model 3 weighs less than any new pickup truck for sale today.

I'm an EV fan but this is apples to oranges comparison. EV vehicles are substantially heavier than their ICE counterparts. Their instant torque also wears tread quicker. That's just facts and there's nothing wrong with that. The world is not black and white.

	▲	AnthonyMouse 9 minutes ago \| parent [-]
		> EV vehicles are substantially heavier than their ICE counterparts. Tesla model 3 curb weight: "3,552 lbs to 4,072 lbs" BMW 3 series curb weight: "3,536 lbs to 4,180 lbs" > Their instant torque also wears tread quicker. This works the opposite of how you imagine it does. Because electric motors have a flat torque curve, electric cars typically use a single-speed transmission, e.g. Model 3 has a fixed gear ratio of ~9:1. Modern ICE cars typically have around 6 gears and the lowest one will have a higher total gear ratio than that, more like 15:1, causing wheel torque to be around two thirds higher in that gear proportional to engine torque than it would be at 9:1, and the engine's torque peak is commonly ~2400 RPM, which translates to as little as 10-15 MPH in first gear. Electric cars like the Model 3 Performance accelerate quickly because they have >500 horsepower. So do ICE cars with equivalent power. Meanwhile something like a Nissan Leaf has similar power and correspondingly a similar 0-60 time to a Honda Civic. To put it another way, there are very few modern cars where you can't hit the traction limit of the tires by putting your foot down in low gear, so the limit was never the powertrain to begin with. Electric cars typically have a faster 60-100 time than similar ICE cars, because then the ICE car has to use a higher gear, but now we're back to the thing where this is hardly relevant unless you're accelerating the vehicle flat out to 100 MPH.

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mattlondon an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Brake dust is significantly less. Modern EV specific tyres paired with moderated torque curves significantly mitigates the tyre dust.

Fossil fueled vehicles are still significantly worse for the environment and health (before you even start considering the wars and bloodshed for the fossil fuels that we're currently witnessing in Ukraine and Iran). Don't accept the propaganda.

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tencentshill 29 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

More like 99% of it. But either way, perfect is the enemy of good.

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throwawaytea an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

My 13 Chevy Volt has 225k miles and is still on its original brake pads and rotors. The rotors are basically good as new, and the pads are at about 40-50%.

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ASalazarMX an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

But you agree that if we can eliminate half of the problem, then we should do it, right?

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lotsofpulp an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

If driven smoothly, EVs solve most of the brake dust problem.

	▲	techdmn an hour ago \| parent \| next [-]
		I have nearly 125k on a M3P, on the original pads. Right foot tends to be heavy on both pedals. Regen takes a lot of the load, makes a huge difference in pad usage / life.
	▲	standeven an hour ago \| parent \| prev \| next [-]
		Exactly. And EVs are marginally heavier if tire dust is an actual concern. Massive SUVs and pickup trucks should be criticized first.
	▲	vablings an hour ago \| parent \| prev [-]
		They sadly also increase the tire problem significantly

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lotsofpulp an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

The EV incentives are not gone, they just changed from being a non refundable federal income tax credit to higher fossil fuel prices.