| ▲ | x187463 6 hours ago |
| This is not representative of what's actually going on, though. It's much more like an artisan carpenter who wants to build houses using bespoke hand-tools and precise joinery. That's great, and there are beautiful works of art created by those skills. But in the last year robots were developed that build homes exactly to spec. The robots work 24/7 and finish entire houses in a few days. That same skilled carpenter is being hired to monitor the robots and check over their work. There is, economically speaking, no place in the process for him to apply his craft. In the time he rips a single board, the robots build the wall. In the time he drives a handful of nails, the drywall is up and the paint is drying. He costs $200/hr, the robots cost $1/hr. The carpenter is free to exercise his craft as he see's fit, but it's going to take place mostly in his personal workshop, for personal reasons, not to develop homes or run a business in the way he did before. We can talk for ages about the quality of the robot's work, the maintainability of the resulting home, etc. But it's clear that, at this time, the market and ecosystem are embracing the robots whole-heartedly so those of us used to the old ways are having to rapidly adjust. |
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| ▲ | lbrito 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] |
| This analogy hinges on the economic argument (that a robot costs 200x less than a human), but far from being an established fact, that notion is more or less entirely based on vague, misleading and exaggerated claims from the token peddlers. The truth is no one knows how much the robot costs, and we probably won't know until its too late. Its extremely naive, though, to simply buy into the PR from the peddlers and redistribute their propaganda verbatim in the way you are doing. Although none of us know for sure, considering R&D, infrastructure capex and externalities, the robots are most definitively _not_ cheap. |
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| ▲ | mpyne 21 minutes ago | parent [-] | | > Its extremely naive, though, to simply buy into the PR from the peddlers OK, so don’t buy their PR, and try it yourself. But if you do this, you will find there is a lot of evidence for the economic argument. I tested out Google Argon 4 release by having it build a Web app to replace a binder I have for reconciling payments with reimbursable expenses. It did it, as well as I would have and in much less time. I just set it to high and supervised it, it cost about $2. Even if you throw in a “supervision cost” to account for the time I had to spend interacting with it, it was substantially cheaper than had I done it at normal salary rates. Probably 2 orders of magnitude cheaper, even. |
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| ▲ | ChrisLTD 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| > We can talk for ages about the quality of the robot's work, the maintainability of the resulting home All of this stuff is so new, and we're supposed to hand wave away quality and maintainability? |
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| ▲ | swat535 40 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | You're thinking with your engineering brain. For corporations, sales, probability and feature release cycles take priority over maintainability or code quality. AI is allowing businesses to build features faster than ever, so management is happy. By the time maintainability issues hit, they've either pivoted, raised more capital or can throw money at the problem. | | |
| ▲ | timmytokyo 4 minutes ago | parent [-] | | It's a good thing structural and civil engineers don't design infrastructure this way. |
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| ▲ | cowlevel 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Almost anyone will accept a 50% quality decrease for a 99% cost decrease. The only reasons I'm not living in a stack of cardboard boxes for $1 rent are that it's illegal, and the police won't protect it from break-ins. | | |
| ▲ | looseleaftea 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | > The only reasons I'm not living in a stack of cardboard boxes for $1 rent are that it's illegal My initial reaction to reading this is not "oh great analogy", it's "please have higher standards for your quality of living" | |
| ▲ | lbrito 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | You can go and live in cardboard boxes right now for free. Why aren't you? Being technically legal or not is besides the point - there are places where it is tolerated. | | |
| ▲ | john_strinlai 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | >You can go and live in cardboard boxes right now for free. Why aren't you? this is why i try to avoid analogies whenever i can. we've cycled through like 3 different iterations of the analogy in 5 comments, just to land on this question. |
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| ▲ | xorcist 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Not that tired old parable again. It doesn't hold. If someone complains they take pride in understanding and designing deterministic processes, you can't reply that this is just like when robots took over manual labor. No, because it is not manual labor, and robots hasn't taken over. Robots are computers. Robots are deterministic. A better comparison would be an artisan architect, a blueprint designer being replaced by a special paint splatter, which when thrown against a piece of paper looks almost exactly like a blueprint of an almost completely liveable house. Great! What's not to like? It will allow anyone to design a house. |
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| ▲ | jacquesm 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Good luck with the eventual rugpull. It always happens. (1) We help you (2) We undercut you (3) You go out of business (4) Your buddies go out of business as well (5) Prices start rising Supermarkets, restaurant chains, mathematicians or programmers it makes no difference. |
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| ▲ | x187463 5 hours ago | parent [-] | | The difference is the open and self-hosted models are not far behind the closed models. You can't rugpull if you don't own the rug. | | |
| ▲ | jacquesm 5 hours ago | parent [-] | | Unless they manage regulatory capture and with this kind of money at stake I would not bet against that. It's going to get very ugly. Read up on transhumanism to see what the stakes are, they're playing for keeps here. | | |
| ▲ | wuschel 4 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Regulatory capture - I tried to bring this up in another comment of mine, but not much resonance. I wondered if many a press article seen in media re security breaches and LLMs based hacks are not in part at least campaigns to legitimize regulation. How would regulatory capture of LLM realistically look like? Do you have any ideas here? | | |
| ▲ | jacquesm 4 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Like this: https://madrobot.blog/2026/10/19/us-bans-deepseek-federal-ag... | | | |
| ▲ | simoncion 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | > How would regulatory capture of LLM realistically look like? Do you have any ideas here? Let's flip this around. What do you imagine the most likely form that regulatory capture crafted by the major LLM Manufacturers would be? When rolling this question around in your head, remember that the US Congress gave the telephone companies that blatantly and knowingly violated FISA retroactive immunity for their crimes in the 2008 FISA Amendments Act. Congress will move mountains if the majority of its members are scared enough and/or see enough profit in something. |
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| ▲ | simoncion 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | > Read up on transhumanism to see what the stakes are... Eh. Transhumanism is very good. Every medical intervention that improves or consensually prolongs the life of a human is transhumanist. Our natural state is incredibly godawful. [0] The best future for humanity is one where one need not work, need not get sick, need not die... where all of the awful parts of life are optional. What the TESCREAL cult is peddling is incredibly bad. They have folks believing that not only are they ushering in the arrival of Robot Jesus, that nearly any terrible thing done now to speed up the project is justifiable because it hastens Robot Jesus's arrival. In actuality, the only thing that's hastened is the accumulation of wealth of awful humans like Altman, Amodei, Huang, and many others. The core tenant of Rationalism [1] is great. It's just a huge shame that so many of the folks who were attracted to the philosophy ended up being so bad at learning how to do the one thing it tries to get you to do. [0] Remember that it wasn't that long ago that humans had a 50/50 chance of dying before the age of five! [1] Your brain is really bad at thinking carefully. You have to train yourself to think carefully despite how shitty your brain is at it. You will inevitably fail at this, but that's no reason to stop trying to get better at it. | | |
| ▲ | Exoristos 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | > ... one need not work, need not get sick, need not die[.] One of these is not like the others. > Your brain is really bad at thinking carefully. You have to train yourself to think carefully despite how shitty your brain is at it. What is "you" in this scenario if not your brain? | | |
| ▲ | simoncion 33 minutes ago | parent [-] | | > One of these is not like the others. Nah. All three are covered by my original statement: The best future for humanity is one where one need not work, need not get sick, need not die... where all of the awful parts of life are optional.
Work, sickness, and death are -for the most part- all things that are awful. As it turns out, there are many more than three awful aspects to being a present-day human. For brevity's sake, I picked three that seemed to me to be most likely to be widely understood and widely considered to be awful.> What is "you" in this scenario if not your brain? That's an excellent question. Are we the blob of fat that hangs out in our skull, our entire body (because of how changes in "distant" parts of it affect what our brain does), the parts of the patterns in our brain that seems to correspond to our conscious mind, some other thing or things? I am utterly unequipped to answer that question, but hope that we collectively get around to trying in earnest to answer it. Maybe we might even do that before we get around to collectively deciding that it's a catastrophically bad thing for people to go without food and shelter? [0] [0] Given what I see here in SF and elsewhere, it looks like we currently collectively consider it to be somewhere between "Not at all a problem" and "Yeah, maybe we should get around to fixing that some day. I _guess_.". |
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| ▲ | jacquesm 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Yes, and communism is great too [1]. [1] in theory. | | |
| ▲ | simoncion 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | And anarchy, yeah. The difference with those is that they're systems of governance... which means that they must scale if they're to be applied to large groups of people. And -well- they scale very poorly. |
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| ▲ | symfoniq 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Except the robots actually cost far more than $1/hour, it’s just that the owners have enough capital to operate at a massive loss until the carpenters have largely been replaced. Only then will we learn what the robots actually cost. |
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| ▲ | akudha 5 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Plus robots (software and hardware) will increasingly be used to invade even the most basic privacy, to control people etc. They are not just productivity tools anymore, they are also mass surveillance tools and every bad thing that comes with it. Example: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ca7ufSI1Qxg&ra=m Most depressing part is humans are training robots to replace themselves | |
| ▲ | x187463 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Self-hosted and/or open models are fast approaching (or have reached) the quality bar necessary to handle a great deal of software development work. The models needed to cause the OP's problem are becoming commoditized. | | |
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| ▲ | AlexandrB 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
| Forget robots, what you're describing already happened in the trades. Modern construction techniques are all about lowering the skill required to build a house and standardizing the process so it can be done with minimal training. E.g. drywall and caulk replacing plaster and precise joinery. You can find example of this in all of the trades. Often, these are also talked about as "safety improvements" - which they sort of are. Given the same baseline intelligence, it's harder to dangerously fuck up plumbing or electrical in 2026 than it was in 1926. |