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▲ whimsicalism 2 hours ago

found the article quite weak, hurt by the East Coast media’s tendency to make everything about government & Trump.

> Donald Trump has unashamedly profited from the presidency, earning more than $1.4 billion in 2025 from cryptocurrency deals. The Trump family has received significant money coming from countries that wish to bend the president’s ear on foreign policy. Donald Trump Jr. has benefited from the sudden interest in his business acumen. Months after the younger Trump’s venture-capital firm took an ownership stake in a rare-earth-magnet start-up, it was awarded a $620 million government loan.

I was hoping, if this style of fraud has become the norm, that we would have more true non-governmental examples. I do not agree that it has become the norm and don’t think this article does much to make the case.

▲jacquesm 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Does asking for downpayments on vehicles you will never ship count?

If so then you you have one more example now.

▲sportsracersss 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

They took nonrefundable down payments on the Roadster nine years ago.

▲jacquesm 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Do they at least pay good interest on the money they took in? Because a decade long interest free loan is a really weird thing and non-refundable only makes sense if they end up shipping them, and they should probably ship them before a sizeable fraction of their customers has died. 9 years to make a car...

▲btilly an hour ago | parent [-]

A number of the people who paid those downpayments, were invited to the recent Roadster demo. Where they got to see a similar car demonstrated, complete with flying. And with no sense of whether it will actually be built, or will be street legal.

▲api 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Preorder down payments are a thing I won’t do anymore.

Never done it on something that huge but I’ve been burned on one or two kickstarter type things.

If you can’t pay and then take delivery it doesn’t exist.

▲jacquesm 2 hours ago | parent [-]

I see kickstarter projects as gifts until proven otherwise.

▲woadwarrior01 2 hours ago | parent [-]

Did you mean grifts?

▲jacquesm an hour ago | parent [-]

No, I would have added an 'r'. But seriously: there are obvious grift kickstarters, though the platform operators do quite a bit of work to keep those out. But at some point the line between 'grifter' and 'highly motivated but delusional founder' gets blurry and I'm happy I don't have to make the call. More so because it's going to be a mess of false positives and false negatives with plenty of overlap, even for experts in the various fields. So making it a marketplace is a good idea, the problem with that is that it then becomes a competition in marketing and glitz rather than solid financial, technical and commercial planning.

Even so, iirc a good 65% or so delivers something and 10% or so delivers nothing, some other percentages in there were for partial deliveries or refunds.

▲jgalt212 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

I'd love to get my hands on that customer list.

▲jacquesm an hour ago | parent [-]

Pre-selected for gullability. If you have bridges to sell... I once came across a grifter that had the principal of a VC company here totally sewn up. He called him 'sensei' and did everything he could to butter him up. Meanwhile he was defrauding them to the tune of a couple of million every year. Very scary such people.

▲bix6 an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

It’s a movie review so they didn’t actually go in deep on the fraud.

FTX, Terra-Luna, Nikola (as mentioned), Builder.ai, Frank, Kalder, Joonko

O and have you heard about the AI labs and how they calculate ARR? lol.

Statistically significant though? I do not know.

▲danielklnstein 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Agreed. Even the non-governmental example in the article - Nikola Corporation - was uncovered as a fraud more than six years ago. And the governmental examples as described aren't even fraud, they're corruption.

Even in this day and age of somewhat exorbitant company valuations, it's infinitely more difficult to replicate the kind of fraud of Nikola or Theranos. If only because of those companies setting a precedent for abject fraudulence and making basic due diligence that much more of a necessity/expectation. A company like Instinct wouldn't manage to get away with its current valuation if their technology wasn't front-and-center for everyone to see and use.

Time will tell - for all we know there's currently a large company more fraudulent than either of those, and we'll only find out in the future - but trying to paint it as the norm isn't based in any recent real-world examples.

▲pseudony 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

A good argument could be made that precisely because it happens in government and those people aren’t booted out post-haste, then society is apparently a lot more OK with this style of behavior than before.

I think Nixon’s watergate is a good comparison. It wasn’t nothing, but how many larger scams and scandals has Trump and family been through with apparent electoral acceptance?

And if it is so. How big a reaction would you get from the population if another Theranos happened? I don’t think people would care, really. Shrug and move on.

▲nradov an hour ago | parent [-]

Most of the population wouldn't care about another Theranos because it wouldn't have any impact on them. People only cared about the first Theranos because Elizabeth Holmes was such a bizarre character. The fraud and business failure didn't have any broader impact on the financial system. And while knowingly giving unsuspecting patients inaccurate blood test lab results was inexcusable and deserving of severe punishment, in the end no one died.

▲cmiles74 an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I wasn't wow-ed by this piece either. There does seem to be something there, though: this thing where someone commits some serious fraud yet gives Trump a slice and then they're pardoned, along with the precipitous drop in prosecuting just these kinds of cases.

▲jeremyjh 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

This is the point though. Trump's approval ratings prove his base does not give a single flying fuck about his grift and corruption. They admire it.

Now you've got a third of the country who are just totally ok with fraud if its perpetrated by someone on their team.

Nearly all tech billionaires are on their team.