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▲ dawnerd 2 hours ago

It’s also a “you can’t scrape us but we can scrape you” mentality these companies are getting into.

It really sucks for small businesses. Their websites get absolutely hammered and they can’t afford or don’t know how to stop it. Cloudflare ends up winning as they’re the easiest solution.

▲tomrod an hour ago | parent | next [-]

> Cloudflare ends up winning as they’re the easiest solution.

What prevents other hosting sites from providing similar tooling?

▲marginalia_nu 3 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

Mostly economies of scale. They have enough data to do the statistics to identify bad actors, and enough bandwidth and servers to facetank the request volume.

▲lq9AJ8yrfs 28 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

It's a cognitive tax on all the parties involved. It works on buyers (websites that pay for it) much the way that llm's work on their users, by working up to the point at which the buyers can't discern it working.

As a user (bot or flesh) you have to jump through these hoops, and to the website operators they get fewer complaints when users (and bots) are able to contort themselves in predictable ways. Versus you'd perceive as a website operator, if your blocking worked at all, that you'd risk seeing a precipitous dropoff of bots if you did things in bespoke ways, as both bots (true positives, among dd and cf survivors) and people (false positives) get jammed.

The net effect in this model would be that such things as cloudflare and datadome take money from websites in order to block "dumb" bots and enfranchise "smart" bots to the point of creating a market for bot services. People that want to bot have to use AI or go to bot service providers.

For website operators that's a worthwhile exchange for dollars, in that dumb bots can cause a lot of harm in wasted compute. Bots are typically dead end users who won't buy ever anyway, or merely inefficient way of doing business if they scrape excessively. And many do scrape excessively.

"reform school for bots" is a good mental model. For this to work, the "reforms" have to be consistent so that bots can conform to them.

It's a peculiar equilibrium and I am not sure that it's all that stable as an equilibrium. Would be a good subject for a formal treatment, game theory and economics.

▲dawnerd 31 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

Would love if they did but most end up just reselling cloudflare. Example WPEngine.

▲sm-silversight an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

what solution is there other than cloudflare that a small business (with decent dev knowledge and claude/codex) could use?

▲sandeepkd 41 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

Cloudflare is probably one of the most popular, reasonably priced for general public. You have fastly, akamai, cloudfront as other proxy providers and CDNs with similar capability but higher price point mostly catering to enterprise customers.

Bunny.net is another one that I find similar to Cloudflare from pricing and functionality perspective

▲charcircuit an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

TikTok, Instagram, X, etc. These platforms will host you for free and will distribute updates to people, including potential customers via the algorithm.

▲sva_ 39 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

I'm not sure just skipping the scraping by providing your data directly for harvesting is the solution

▲LikesPwsh 17 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Those are no longer useful as a "public square" because of the increasingly walled garden design.

▲otherme123 an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Funny that I can't barely access any of those just because I don't have an account. Plus Facebook. They show me almost nothing and push their shitty app to nausea. And I am sure the "site" owners get zero info on how many clients they are losing for being behind that fence.

▲charcircuit 6 minutes ago | parent [-]

Then make an account. Billions of people have already done so. Cloudflare, or AWS, or any other server host also requires an account too.

▲ffsm8 41 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

Okay real quick, how do I configure a reverse proxy to my application with TikTok or Instagram?

▲charcircuit 4 minutes ago | parent [-]

You might be overthinking what is actually needed for the business.

▲rileycalhoun022 an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

[flagged]

▲bethekidyouwant 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Does it suck if you offer a product and someone’s looking for it and the agent can’t look on Amazon but they can look on your small side maybe that’s good

▲Geezus_42 an hour ago | parent | next [-]

Not it the site can't stay up because it's constantly being hammered by bots.

▲edukite 42 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

Dude, I had a 1Gb of nginx logs daily then I blocked them and it dropped to 10mb weakly.

▲dawnerd 32 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

Legit what one of our clients problem was. Normal web traffic wasn’t an issue and the logs were just a few megs. Yeah there was a problem where they were not rotating but once meta started crawling them 24/7 ignoring the robots.txt it kept filling their vps up. An annoying problem to fix once a server is completely full and you can’t even ssh in.

▲sva_ 36 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

30GB a month isn't too terrible? I guess it depends - for example my provider includes 10TB egress per month, so 30gb would be negligible if it's static content. I'm not sure what others do, but I often click on the links that the agents pull up as sources so the websites do get more discoverable.

What really sucks is e.g. Gemini that pulls images without being able to go to the source (unless it changed recently.)