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▲ baron3dl 3 hours ago

The Two Santas strategy <https://www.milwaukeeindependent.com/thom-hartmann/two-santa...> is the American implementation of the famous Alexander Fraser Tytler quote: “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world's greatest civilizations has been 200 years. These nations have progressed through this sequence: From bondage to spiritual faith; From spiritual faith to great courage; From courage to liberty; From liberty to abundance; From abundance to selfishness; From selfishness to apathy; From apathy to dependence; From dependence back into bondage.”

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▲Gareth321 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

It reminds me of the quote from G. Michael Hopf:

> Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. And, weak men create hard times.

Good times have made weak men. People unwilling to stand up for our values. Afraid to even declare what we stand for. Afraid to be proud of our traditions and what makes our way of life superior and worth defending and fighting for. These weak people will vote for candidates who demoralise us and weaken us and ensure our demise.

▲adiabatichottub an hour ago | parent | next [-]

Here's a blog post by Bret Devereaux with an examination of why that theory is specious:

https://acoup.blog/2020/01/17/collections-the-fremen-mirage-...

▲kubanczyk 32 minutes ago | parent [-]

Does Bret argue that good times do not create weak people? The blog reads as "good times create pretty great military power", which is something else.

▲ethbr1 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

It feels like we're seeing a bit of a turn in things... we'll see.

I was struck yesterday by reading Huey Long's "Share Our Wealth" proposals from the 1930s in the midst of the Great Depression.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Share_Our_Wealth#Proposed_legi...

One characteristic of democracy is that it is ever-rewritten by those who strive to change it and vote. (Also, occasionally assassination, in Long's case)

▲qeternity 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Today we are dominated by weak men afraid of what a greater mass of weak men might say about them or accuse them of.

The lion doesn't concern itself with the opinion of sheep.

▲UncleMeat an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Historians fairly uniformly think that this adage is trash.

▲watwut an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

The quote is bullshit. It is not consistent woth observable reality where population under pressure breaks up.

▲dotancohen 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

That is extraordinary insightful. It's frightening to see how correct it is, and to recognise that Europe and the US are both well past the abundance phase.

▲12ha716 2 hours ago | parent [-]

There would be abundance if the trillionaires were happy with 5% returns and invested in housing instead of gambling (and being bailed out eventually) on "Super Intelligence".

▲asanineassasin 2 hours ago | parent [-]

Cultural inability to advance?

▲12aft5l an hour ago | parent [-]

One-liner bot?

▲kilroy123 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Otherwise known as anacyclosis. It's a cycle.

▲dada216 an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

that 200 years average does not sound correct. and so the rest actually.

▲rexpop 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

This is some quaint editorial work, and compelling, but this totalizing historical assertion is smuggling a lot it assumptions into the conversation.

▲hall0ween 2 hours ago | parent [-]

Plus I don’t think history plays this a-to-b. Counter examples are out there, Ottoman empire, Assyrian empire, Spartans.

▲12ha716 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury.

It isn't 2024 any more and you cannot repeat that election campaign.

Under the Trump administration, nothing goes to the voters and everything goes to BigTech, the MIC and Trump's friends.

▲shimman 2 hours ago | parent [-]

Yeah, the quote comes across as the rich + elites upset that the poors want government programs too.

▲IshKebab 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> The average age of the world's greatest civilizations has been 200 years.

Sounds like total bullshit. I briefly googled it and apart from AI also telling me that it was total bullshit, the first list I found split the Roman empire in two so it would neatly match the hypothesis!

Someone just thought of that and then found data to fit their neat idea.

▲Supermancho 2 hours ago | parent [-]

>> The average age of the world's greatest civilizations has been 200 years.

> Sounds like total bullshit.

You're right. It more like an avg of 118 years (median 73), not 200, depending on what you mean by "greatest" ofc. The Ancient Romans, US, and Dutch pulling that average up and 1/3 of historically modern continuing democracies having a short lifespan being founded around WW2, pulling it down.

The Roman Empire was not stable for an uninterrupted period of time. It's conceptually called a single state for simplicity, because such a large period of time and area of land naturally had instability (less than current Europe, granted). The Roman Empire democratic government lasted about 487 years before falling into autocratic rule.

▲dada216 an hour ago | parent [-]

republican government. I wouldn't call that a democracy, not in the modern sense of the term.

▲adfglknk 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

[dead]