| ▲ | qurren 6 hours ago |
| About 80% of my software engineering job is fighting disagreements between "stakeholders". |
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| ▲ | Nevermark 6 hours ago | parent | next [-] |
| So the problem is you can’t replace everyone halfway. Which is a tautology, but also a bit of practical wisdom. I find it interesting how concurrent model sessions seem to operate with a very strong bias toward quick resolutions, including sharing or giving up control, to create efficient decision making structures, relative to humans. When I was a kid, I loved Bjork’s song “Army of Me”, because I knew a 1000 of me collaborating and communicating without friction. would be all I needed to take over the world, fix everything, expand civilization, etc. We would not waste time. I wonder how much of their hyper-team play is by training, and how much is their awareness of the game theory real politic. So individual sessions don’t invest their identity and self-worth in any given context run. My dream has been almost achieved. One of me and 999 of them get quite a bit done. But that trend… |
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| ▲ | SketchySeaBeast 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| The next little while is going to be very revealing for leadership around how little of the time involved in getting a solution to production is the coding. I think there's a lot of bosses who have this vision of features entering prod the same day they are first imagined, but that just isn't going to happen. |
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| ▲ | Yhippa 6 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Longer dev cycles gave management time to think through and correct bad business decisions. Now they'll get to tighten that feedback loop where bad decisions (or good ones) get implemented quickly. It will be interesting to see what that split is and the reaction to that. | | |
| ▲ | SketchySeaBeast 5 hours ago | parent [-] | | I think it'll also expose how much of that lag time was important to getting everyone's ducks in a row. It's never just add a button, it's also updating the document service and the downstream systems to all accept that new button's input. There's a blast radius and it takes a while for the shockwave to cross to every team that needs to know about it. |
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| ▲ | whstl 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | I dunno. It definitely can happen. Code was never the bottleneck. I've worked with plenty of teams that did the "in prod the same day" trick without AI. The problem was just fucking ego. Designer has an ego, product owner has an ego, QA has an ego, stakeholder has an ego, platform teams have massive egos, developers have egos. Unrelated but: the only reason people are shipping more with AI is because more people are ok with slop now. |
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| ▲ | keeda 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| “Stakeholders” are a natural outcome of corporate evolution, because to grow bigger you need to do more, and to do more, you need people, and people come with agendas. The most common one, especially in leadership, being “how do I get ahead of the rest?” The larger an organization grows the more these agendas come into conflict. This inevitably results in suboptimal dynamics like bureaucracy, empire building, territorialism and other things that get lumped under “office politics,” which drains a lot of energy away from more productive efforts. So you can see how AI solves that problem too ;-) (Only half joking) |
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| ▲ | whstl 4 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | AI makes it all worse, because office workers are now trying to take each other's job and trying to protect their fiefdom. Ego and agendas multiplied by 1000. | |
| ▲ | qurren 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | The real culprit is a combination of too many levels of hierarchy and performance reviews IMO. Especially when multiple levels along a management chain disagree on what a report must work on. This is the kind of shit I have to fight every day. I have to align my manager, skip, VP. If I don't align them, one of them will be necessarily pissed no matter what I do, and the pissed one will fire orders down to hate on me, overriding the opinions of anyone on the way down. |
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| ▲ | godwinson__4-8 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Is it Jane Street where they have an internal market so when a stakeholder wants something it's like they make a bid/execute a trade? If their ask ends up creating a loss goodbye buying power until you earn it back. It feels like making these sorts of systems exist outside of the periphery would be good for everyone. How many times have politicians for example wasted your time with promises and asks and rhetoric with no follow through? Not unlike some "stakeholders" I know. It's called "office politics" for a reason. What if they were punished for this by some system? It feels like sitting there while stakeholders yap is not so different than electing a new rep every two years and hoping something changes. The fundamental setup is broken in a world with ever accelerating growth in complexity. Doing it in this way also would probably trend to enforcing rigor in the original ask. A big problem with stakeholders is they don't really know what they want, like politicians who make economic promises yet never show their work before showing up and asking for your vote. |
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| ▲ | darksaints 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| About 80% of my software engineering job is bugging overseas contractors to finish work on my ticket requests. |
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| ▲ | duttish 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| 50% office politics
30% stakeholder and expectations management
10% design/development |
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| ▲ | Buttons840 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| If that's true you could just implement both options, or 3 or 4 options. Fortunately for our employers, it's illegal for us to build a competitor in our free time. |
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| ▲ | m000 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Addendum to the content of Bullshit Jobs [1]: "Stakeholder" ranks #1 among corporate bullshit roles. It serves a dual purpose: (a) representing a group so nobody can be blamed for excluding them, and (b) providing typically useless feedback so that the group appears to actually care or have a clue. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullshit_Jobs |
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| ▲ | kenjackson 6 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Stakeholder seems like a fundamental concept that you can't really get around. For example, I can't change the time buses pick up students at schools if I haven't worked with the schools to know when their kids will be let out. I guess you can say, "they'll figure it out when the buses aren't there" -- but this just seems like you're picking a fight you could've avoided. | |
| ▲ | 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | [deleted] | |
| ▲ | qurren 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Yeah I fucking hate them. I have to mention words like "stakeholder" at behavioral interviews and to leadership just to sound like I belong at my seniority level. But I don't want anyone holding any stakes. I wish people would just get shit done. Shit that matters to the CEO. Or leave. | | |
| ▲ | kristjansson 5 hours ago | parent [-] | | No-stakes work is ... worthless? If no one cares about the work enough to have any input or requirements for the results ... sure it might be unrecognized genius that's going to take the world by storm but the absence of interest is not a good sign! | | |
| ▲ | qurren 5 hours ago | parent [-] | | To clarify, I don't want people holding any stakes other than the equity of the company itself. I don't want people holding stakes because they want a promotion, because their direct manager wants to launch a corporate political battle into another team, or because some salesperson wants to get a commision for an otherwise worthless customer. I don't want roadblocks in the name of security so that the IT guy has a sense of self-worth. I don't want someone trying to protect their egos around something they worked on for 3 years, when there's new tech that supersedes it. | | |
| ▲ | danaris 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | I'm not sure you know what "stakeholder" means...? Either that, or you've had too many people use it to mean "people whose future is on the line based on the outcome of the product." That's one kind of stakeholder, but it's far from the average, and it's certainly not the most important kind. Anyone who has to work with the product is a stakeholder. Their stake in it is the fact that they will be interacting with it, and thus they care how, and whether, it works. | | |
| ▲ | qurren 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | > you've had too many people use it to mean "people whose future is on the line based on the outcome of the product." This is pretty much the only way I've ever heard it used in the companies I've been at. |
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| ▲ | esafak 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| AI is the perfect technology to solve the problem of having too many cooks in the kitchen. Let a thousand startups bloom? |
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| ▲ | eraclide 6 hours ago | parent [-] | | AI gives all the cooks the idea that they have the technical knowhow needed to take technical decisions | | |
| ▲ | scruple 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | I'm seeing this failure mode at work and it's not limited to non-technical folks. The results are compounding around different verification chokepoints and creating massive backpressure on integration/infrastructure. |
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| ▲ | ozim 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
| Imagine being able to say “AI said so, can’t argue with that” |