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▲ FabHK 9 hours ago

> Eventually it will run out of things that it can do with its training and the only way to get it to do more will be training it on new human found knowledge.

How do you know this?

▲astrobe_ 5 hours ago | parent | next [-]

AIs cannot invent things like cubism, surrealism or hip-hop.

Or maybe it can; the early image generators famously did output horrific images sometimes because of their limitations, but these outputs qualify nonetheless creations.

Now the interesting thing is that it is humans who evaluate them as horrific, worthless or interesting.

Certainly AIs could pretend they have that sort of opinions and judgement, but hopefully humans will remain more interested in the opinions of other humans.

▲0c3ca83 3 hours ago | parent [-]

> Certainly AIs could pretend they have that sort of opinions and judgement, but hopefully humans will remain more interested in the opinions of other humans.

Online, how would they even know? Offline -- either we give up on the internet, or the offline discussion will be heavily influenced by what AI said online.

▲izzydata 8 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

I don't see how its output possibilities could be infinite given a finite set of data. Taken to the extreme if you give an LLM only a single piece of information then that is going to be the only thing it can produce. Given it two pieces of information and maybe it can produce every combination of those two things. Given all of the worlds knowledge I'm sure its possible outputs are incomprehensibly large, but still not infinite. Then having its outputs match a set of really specific instructions is going to be a small subset of that.

▲mahkoh 8 hours ago | parent | next [-]

How is this different from human brains being made up of a finite number of neurons in a finite number of configurations? I know very little about LLMs and nothing about neurology and maybe you can explain to me why one is so much more powerful than the other.

▲Supermancho 7 hours ago | parent | next [-]

As I understand it, the advantages of AI have not just been speed of processing.

Humans have cognitive limits. Humans hold a specific slice of all knowledge at a time and necessarily limits what correlations can be leveraged. This is similar to "context windows" in modern AI. Human minds are wildly variable in efficiency. AI is has constant inefficiency, largely controlled by the speed of light, physical RAM, and processing power, with superior (no cost) "thought" context switching. The AI also has superior accuracy without the need for "concentration" because the AI is processing on a Turing machine with the limited operations that it's superior at in terms of time and energy - eg find an element in a list of 1 million elements.

▲TedDoesntTalk 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

> a finite number of neurons in a finite number of configurations

Neurons and synapses change, especially synapses (the connections between neurons). Some neurons have a few connections to other neurons. Others have hundreds of thousands of connections to other neurons. These grow and change. "Estimates are between 100 trillion and 1,000 trillion neural connections" Is it finite? Depends on your definition of finite. If anything countable is finite, then it is finite but the number may be practically uncountable. Is it fixed? No.

▲FabHK 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Sure, a given LLM can only produce so much (though it might be a lot), and then you'll need fresh inputs. But you contend that those have to be human, while I am arguing that they could be

- random,

- from the environment,

- from other AIs.

That increases the space considerably.

In particular, note that your argument also applies to humans: A human, being finite, can only produce finitely many things. But you add other humans, the environment, and pure chance to the mix, and it'll be pretty infinite for all practical purposes.

▲ambicapter 6 hours ago | parent | next [-]

model collapse seems to say that "AI" cannot train on itself.

▲izzydata 8 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

I would be curious to see the end result of letting it endlessly update its inputs from its own outputs. I was under the impression that eventually this would cause delusions and if you let it do this long enough and it is solving problems that no humans can verify as correct that it isn't useful.

Maybe that is the limits of my imagination, but it seems unwise to take humans completely out of the loop. Having mathematicians around that can understand what it is doing so that we can utilize that knowledge in a way that we can have some confidence in seems important.

▲dfdydx 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Well humans do that and you expect them to continue to do that - why can't AI models do it as well?

▲somenameforme 7 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Typical thought experiment - go back to the early years of humanity, even before we've created language itself. Communication is basic grunts and other such things, cutting edge knowledge is 'poke him with the pointy end'. Compile all of this knowledge into the training set for an LLM, let it run with infinite processing power and infinite time. It'll just continually remix the knowledge of that snapshot of time. You're certainly not getting to the Moon, discovering the secrets of the atom, or even discovering mathematics.

It sounds increasingly dumb to bring this up given how advanced models have become, but it remains true - they are still fundamentally token prediction algorithms. And that imposes hard constraints on their potential. These constraints are relatively academic in our current world because there's just so absurdly much information and no human can hold more than a negligible amount in his mind at once. So they'll certainly be able to connect many 'obvious' dots that we don't see simply for a lack of carrying capacity, but they're not going to discover concepts that do not clearly follow from the comprehensive knowledge of an era.

▲izzydata 8 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Perhaps they could some day. I'm basing my understanding on the current day capabilities. Once that changes I will update what I think.

▲reasonableklout 6 hours ago | parent [-]

It seems far more likely to me that current LLMs have learned generic reasoning capabilities which will allow them to solve effectively infinite problems, rather than whatever vague limit on capabilities you seem to think there are.

▲IshKebab 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

There are two reasons:

1. LLMs aren't run deterministically - they use a bit of noise to improve the output. So even with the exact same input you're going to get a whole distribution of outputs.

2. Feedback from the environment. LLMs (and humans!) work best when they can test ideas. That's why coding agents work so well. If you ask an agent 1000 times to just think of a compression algorithm, it'll probably spit out very samey answers just like a human would. If you give it a test corpus and let it try out different things it will absolutely be able to come up with novel ideas.

▲bluebands 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The set of data will increase as it outputs

▲AlienRobot 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

I don't think AI will continue growing infinitely either, but maybe "incomprehensibly large" is large enough to solve all the math problems.