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▲ jjcm 7 hours ago

> Warning: AI benchmarks. Please don't trust them

I like that they're being up front about this. Benchmarks are a metric that can be gamed. They give you an approximate estimate of where things land, but you really need to test for your use case.

▲bptp24 2 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

I think the point is we need better and open benchmark players which can bring and monetise on domain specific benchmarks for end users and not just selling them to the big labs.

▲nico 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

That’s true, for example here, this benchmark chooses tasks and datasets that Jeffy is really good at, better than Jev or Laya: https://jeffyclassify.com/blog/when-llms-fail-at-classificat...

But the Jeffy models are explicitly trained on those datasets (to be fair, classifiers are just really good, even a decision model finetuned on the same dataset, doesn’t beat a classifier - in classification tasks)

▲nijave 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I generally trust benchmarks but my personal experience in the last 6-9 months is they have little relation to real LLM performance, unfortunately.

I've had better luck just running a few of my own simple tests.

▲verelo 2 hours ago | parent [-]

It's almost turning into something as good as standardized testing for humans...helpful indicator, but can be gamed.

▲samsmallmind 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

100% agree, have found through tests a big discrepancy between models optimised for SWE benchmarks and usage in prod - there is a somewhat subjective element to it as well in terms of output that can't be quantified effectively (less so with decision models naturally)

▲verdverm 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I like to test the decision models with coin flips. This has a well known answer and I haven't seen one give it back. It undermines my trust in every other decision.

▲willy_k 2 hours ago | parent [-]

How do you test that? Are you looking for 50% confidence in an answer? I imagine it’s more than that, I’m curious.

▲verdverm 2 hours ago | parent [-]

A very simple setup, you can try here for Jev: https://jevplayground.com/

It's essentially, "predict the outcome of a coin flip", "what is the result?", and "heads" and "tails" as the answer options. With the Jev website, they do not show the "this is not a real probability" disclaimer until after you get the answer (misleading imo, should be upfront and more prominent, eg. by the input form like the gemini app)

When I give this to an LLM, it will generally respond with something like 50/50, 100% confidence.

▲pietz 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Or, you know, it's an easy excuse because they're already behind on many of them.

▲girvo 6 hours ago | parent | next [-]

They are? In all my evals at work, Jev seems to win, despite me wanting the open weight versions to.

I imagine if I fine tuned one of the open weight models for my use case it would be possible to beat it, though, but as a general drop in decision model, I’ve not really seen much that beats it especially for the cost

▲inerte 5 hours ago | parent [-]

Same here, and I have a project 100% hosted in Cloudflare ecosystem (AI Gateway, Workers, Queues, R2, D1, DO, etc) I was so happy when I saw clef. Tested, and it's bad. Slower and wronger than Jev.

Still waiting on Decisions API using Luna, as this what I was using before.

Run your own evals, folks.

▲vilos1611 5 hours ago | parent [-]

We evaluated the Decisions API at work and it was worse in all dimensions (price, speed, and quality of the result).

▲jwpapi 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Or they use it as marketing wording to get liked by devs.., which is most likely given we know that’s typesafes usp

▲CompleteSkeptic 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

we've been public about this before the category was even created

▲armhag 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

[dead]