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▲ nsingh2 2 days ago

I don't know how sincere this comment is, but if there are others thinking this way, it's a mistake. Nihilism is a dead end (or political cynicism/fatalism, whatever you want to call it).

Social media is a veil of manipulation, engagement maximization, and bots. Do not misconstrue it as any kind of real or productive politics. There is a signal there amongst the noise, but it's hard to make sense of if you do not have a coherent world model or belief system. You have to learn to cut through it if you want to keep your sanity.

▲conductr 2 days ago | parent | next [-]

Idk. The thing with politics is I see the bat shit crazy stuff that social promotes then I see it almost verbatim when I’m out and about IRL.

Family members post absolute vitriol online. Then they want to make sure you read it and agree with them at thanksgiving dinner. Any type if civil discussion of differing views instantly devolves into name calling and insults.

Weird times.

▲rootusrootus 13 minutes ago | parent [-]

Best case, it's like a cold war. That's what it feels like in my family (well, my extended family at least, my close relatives all roughly share the same outlook I have). They know I don't agree with them, I know it, we tiptoe around it and silently agree that we should just talk about anything but politics. Sometimes it's hard, but so far we seem to have settled on family being more important the winning a political battle.

▲falsaberN1 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Read my other comment in the thread. Why would I post a non-sincere comment on this anyway? My belief is that all of us, no matter our gender, religion, age or social standing, are prey for the political and "elite" class. And not only we aren't holding them accountable, we are fighting their fights for them in several fields of our lives in form of "political discourse".

My country has a very serious housing crisis, both the left and the right are contributing to it because both parties have multiple people who are "serial landlords" with several properties, so they only make laws that benefit the landlord. This is a known fact and there are huge protests ongoing about it to the point emergency elections have been called.

Yet, saying this simple stance just as I did now, that both of them are guilty, will have people call you an "ultra" or call you a conspiracy theorist, that you are a fence sitter, that you don't know what you are talking about, and so and so on. Like you have some ulterior motive or are a paid shill from the other side or making the logic leap to thinking you support the far-right for not choosing one of the two existing "teams". Everything has gone crazy.

▲nsingh2 2 days ago | parent | next [-]

> Read my other comment in the thread. Why would I post a non-sincere comment on this anyway?

HN is social media, saner than most, but I still don't assume sincerity.

> Yet, saying this simple stance just as I did now, that both of them are guilty, will have people call you an "ultra" or call you a conspiracy theorist, that you are a fence sitter, that you don't know what you are talking about, and so and so on.

If you mean people online, then that's expected. It's what I meant by social media being unproductive. Hostility attracts engagement and makes it more visible.

National politics is heavily influenced by economic interests, including global capital. And as wealth concentrates so does political power. That doesn't mean ordinary citizens have no political agency though, don't underestimate the difference you can make in your local community.

▲falsaberN1 2 days ago | parent [-]

Mostly online yes, but even offline people have been in a very strange edge lately. Like, if you don't take a stance to one of the two main political parties in my country, that means you support the third option which is a far-right party. If any of the members of that party bumped me on the street I wouldn't recognize them. Anyway, once that implication is on the table people start assuming (and saying behind your back) very ugly things about you very fast, which is why I started disengaging.

My heart is with the people, not the corporations or the elites. I just feel none of the choices right now is for the people. I don't understand why that would make me "hate LGBT people or migrants". It just doesn't make sense to me. The team mentality of the whole thing has gone too far in my opinion. And I don't understand why people get so heated up for groups that don't care about them at the end of the day.

I don't even think I'll be alive to see another election after the emergency one next month though. So it's too late for me to make any meaningful change. So I'm just trying to use my remaining time to leave a bit of a legacy as an artist and programmer. Even if I enjoy AI. One thing doesn't cancel the other. I do mostly analog art and even have been pretty excited to try new tools now that my hand works again (surgeries obliterated my hands for a while and they are permanently blue-ish and cold now, but I regained some mobility this month). AI is for me "that thing I wanted since I was a kid when scifi had AIs doing stuff".

In fact, that whole thing is also another can of worms. People can't seem to understand I can be an artist AND enjoy AI. The moment I mention AI people start assuming I flood the world with slop and want to destroy artists, then they ask for proof that I'm an artist, I show them my work (impossible for an AI to replicate because it's mostly analog), they go "but if you can draw like this why do you use AI!?? You should hate it because it's against you" and they can't conceive that for me it's just fun to tinker with it and test what it can do for fun. Like I should immediately take an anti-AI stance BECAUSE I am an artist. The AI is not replacing me because for me art is a form of expression and doing it is its own reward. It's just fun. Both things are fun to me. I don't see why they are exclusive.

It's like there's no room for human nuance and contradictions anymore. You have to be in a neat little box or else you are a bad person so it's right to fight you and hurt you. It's "justified", you know. Even if they are completely wrong, they already passed judgement.

▲collingreen 2 days ago | parent | prev [-]

I think most folks are actually in the middle and generally agree. Anyone who thinks one of the us political parties is completely innocent is lying, either to you or themselves.

That being said, I think it's worth noticing if one party does more bad things than the other and I also think speaking up with your values is worth it and maybe even a duty we owe the people who built this country before us.

Either way, your first responsibility is your own mental health so you have full support from this internet stranger.

▲ 2 days ago | parent [-]
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▲jr3592 a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> it's a mistake. Nihilism is a dead end (or political cynicism/fatalism, whatever you want to call it).

As someone deep in nihilism and political cynicism, I can concur, this is no real solution.

The problem is I don't believe leaning into that world is a solution either, and anyone who says otherwise, sounds like my boomer parents who have Fox news streaming on their 80" TV that they update every year, in their 4500 sqft home.

I mean this genuinely and not to stoke a fire, comments advocating for leaning into the political world really feel naive and perhaps generational. Most younger people have a damn near impossible time feeling anything other than dread and sadness when thinking about the state of politics.

I'd love to have a genuine reason to be hopeful, but regardless of which party you believe in, it feels like we're all circling the drain here.

▲rightbyte 21 hours ago | parent [-]

I was deeply cynical about politics until I joined a party. The idiots hid when I was around. The boomers in the nomination commitee were throwing posts at me. It was surrealistic and nothing like I imagined. Then I realized something even worse. There are no cabal of idiots. The older generation is not holding on to power. (YMMV ofc). It is some sort of deeper systematic problem with disengagement. And the angry mob knocking on the door really are idiots.

▲anon291 9 hours ago | parent [-]

You mean you joined the party leadership by going to meetings and such? I'm curious. Can you expand on what you mean by disengagement?

▲rightbyte 7 hours ago | parent [-]

Yes. Straight up no roadblocks in two years. County level. I assumed I would have to fight tooth and nail for years and be manouvered out by some old guard all the time. It was nothing like I imagined.

Disengagment among voters and inactive party members towards active party members.

Trying to get engagement is like pulling teeth. You could be in a commitee deciding a thing, inviting the public to a meeting discussion how the thing should be done. Some of the few who show up complain that you are not changing the thing and just talk. Then you change the thing and suddenly, when it is too late to change the decision without a lot of hassle, there is way more discussion about the thing and complaints on how it is done, from people that are not aware of the trade offs or prior discussion or the whole picture.

Very frustrating. (Be aware of that the story is somewhat hyperbolic to make a point. Also, yes, Goomba fallacy).

I think the main problem is that way too few people are active in politics compared to way back. There are like no channels to reach out and too little every day discussions.

▲Barrin92 2 days ago | parent | prev [-]

>Nihilism is a dead end (or political cynicism/fatalism, whatever you want to call it).

Nihilism is a popular, vague pejorative today but philosophically it's a serious answer to exactly the manipulation, engagement-bait and juvenile techno-optimism of our age. Whenever you're at the end of some moral or social period active, not resentful or passive nihilism, is a palate cleanser and necessary condition for revaluation of all values.

The kind of middle aged men that tend to fall into despair or suicide in these times are usually people who rely on some identity provided to them that then crumbles. Job, money, house, status, 'how to be a man' etc. There's something they're supposed to be like and they're not, stability they took for granted just stops.

And we're in a period like this across many dimensions, political, technological etc. And if you want to be sane a dose of nihilism is fairly important so that you can go on and construct some sovereign answers to all these issues.

▲littlexsparkee 13 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Isn't that existentialism rather than nihilism? Or perhaps you are mention it as a transition state before arriving at constructing your own meaning?

▲nsingh2 2 days ago | parent | prev [-]

> not resentful or passive nihilism

To be more precise, it was passive nihilism I was criticizing. That's the sentiment I sensed in the original comment.