Is there a citation for the decline in third spaces? I read such a claim often. But in my part of the US (Brooklyn NY) the number of third spaces like coffee shops and pottery studios is booming.

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dansquizsoft 15 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Brooklyn isn't very representative of the majority of middle America

	▲	Barrin92 12 hours ago \| parent [-]
		there's diners and bars in every corner of middle America. What's changed, I think, is the level of striverism among young people. In this thread you have multiple people saying they can't go out without paying 200$ or ordering 8$ beers. If you're in your 20s or 30s just go bar hopping in whatever the rundown part of your town is like people used to instead of going fine dining. A movie ticket, inflation adjusted, costs the same as it used to for decades. Normal people just took it for granted that they had to smuggle some beers into the cinema rather than turning the whole evening into some hundreds of dollars spending spree.

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hobo123 20 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Part of it may be high rents. I read that rents increased a lot because of fashion stores. They make so much revenue per hour that more traditional stores (like the laundry, the washing machine store, the sewing store, the tabletop games store, and maybe cheaper cafes and restaurants just can't compete.

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bluefirebrand a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Does it count as a third space if you have to pay for it?

Coffee shops and such don't feel like good third spaces to me, because I don't always want to spend money just to exist

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returningfory2 a day ago | parent | next [-]

> Does it count as a third space if you have to pay for it?

Yes, third spaces/places include places you need to pay for.

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iamnothere 17 hours ago | parent [-]

You were downvoted but you are correct. Some classic examples of third spaces are English pubs and Dutch coffee houses.

That third spaces include commercial spaces does not imply that “free” (tax or donation funded) third spaces should not exist. Parks and museums are also great third spaces.

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TFNA 17 hours ago | parent [-]

While in many countries cafes and pubs served as real third places in the past, rising rents (and other costs) have led many establishments to discourage people from lingering. At my old haunts, loud music is now played to get customers moving on, and the very second you're done with your drink the wait staff will swoop down and ask if you want to place another order (i.e. a hint to pay more or get out).

Compare this to earlier times when it might have been common and socially acceptable to sit for hours on a single purchase and just shoot the shit with fellow townspeople.

	▲	iamnothere 17 hours ago \| parent [-]
		This is also true, especially in busy areas, but sometimes going to a different neighborhood changes things (depending on the city).

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ryanchants 15 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Home is the first place, work/school is the second place, the third place is everything else.

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astura a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

When I was a kid kids used to just hang out. We'd take a bus, ride bikes, or walk to the mall, the park, the woods, fast food restaurant, record store, dollar store, etc and just loiter. Nobody had any money to buy anything, but boy we'd browse and loiter. Sometimes we'd just walk for hours. We'd walk miles and miles and miles just to sit at a table at Burger King with a single small fry between our group and hang out there.

Children don't do that anymore; they basically don't leave the house because they have the Internet. They communicate through texting and Discord so they don't even have to "hang out." Beyond the social change, when I was a young adult most malls went 18+ (unless accompanied by parents/guardians) and most other businesses nowadays allow teens to loiter the way we use to. Businesses want people in and out once they are done.

Even if business allowed it, most parents don't allow their kids to leave the house unattended anymore.

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toomuchtodo a day ago | parent | prev [-]

legister's comment https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=50091295 mentions it:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bowling_Alone

Additional citations:

https://ibs.colorado.edu/new-research-on-disappearing-third-...

https://www.aei.org/domestic-policy/americas-third-places-ar...

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S13538...

https://esl.uchicago.edu/2023/11/01/third-places-what-are-th...

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/02/28/business/third-place-mean...

NYC is a thriving city of 8.5 million people and one of the most economically active cities in the world, so your experience may be different than say, Gary, Indiana.

	▲	returningfory2 a day ago \| parent [-]
		Thank you! I skimmed these citations and I remain unconvinced. But I think really answering the question would be a real research project, not a HN back and forth :) The first citation's relevant highlight is "All categories of third places experienced widespread closures from 2019 to 2021" which is obviously a COVID phenomenon and not a cultural trend. They admit so much. Data from that period I would say is generally irrelevant to discussing wider cultural trends. In fact a query to Gemini says that the number of independent (not chain) coffee shops is growing at 3.2% across the country and it gives this citation: https://www.locationscloud.com/research-report/us-coffee-sho... The other Science Direct article says "Third places _may_ be closing in neighborhoods across the United States" (my emphasis). The remaining articles seem to be opinion articles without hard data. They focus on the hypothetical problem of third places going away. In fact the AEI article talks about zoning which cannot possibly be of relevance to any decline in third places given that zoning is becoming less restrictive over time in the last decade.