I reject your assertion because it promulgates the lie of "browser choice". The health of the web as an open platform is defined by browser diversity, not browser choice.

A bit of forced diversity is wildly preferable over another collapse towards monoculture.

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bigyabai 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

> The health of the web as an open platform is defined by browser diversity, not browser choice.

Says who? I certainly don't agree with that statement, the "web as an open platform" was unrecognizable when proprietary clients were the norm.

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simondotau 2 hours ago | parent [-]

If web developers stop ensuring their sites work in Safari, consumers will be forced to install Chrome. That's not browser choice. An open platform means that CONSUMERS get to choose which browser they use, not web developers.

(And before you say it, consumers can choose Android, where 99.9% of people use Chrome, but apparently that's okay because they "chose" it.)

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bigyabai an hour ago | parent [-]

It's a chicken-and-egg problem. How can you get web developers to test their websites in Safari, when the majority of Mac devs haven't opened Safari in ages? We have the answer already. Safari doesn't compete on it's own merit.

WebKit is a second-class citizen on the web, and we can argue about why that is, but nobody can sincerely deny it. Apple's strategy has been dead in the water for over a decade. iOS lost.

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simondotau an hour ago | parent [-]

Safari is still relevant and iOS hasn't lost; the very existence of this thread serves as a clear rejection of that framing. If Safari wasn't competing, or if iOS had lost, nobody would care.

Meanwhile we have people bitching and moaning and meanwhile, as a Firefox user, I go to Safari when I encounter a website that doesn't work in Firefox. Because at the end of the day, developers are forced to test in Safari, and that is a Good Thing. No developer is forced to test in Firefox.

	▲	leptons 28 minutes ago \| parent [-]
		>the very existence of this thread serves as a clear rejection of that framing. The existence of the "Switch to Safari" campaign is a clear rejection that Safari is competing - it's not, it's the laughing stock of web browsers in 2026, it holds the same place that IE6 did in the early 2000s. >Because at the end of the day, developers are forced to test in Safari, I'm not forced to test in Safari, because I don't have money for an iOS device. So Apple users can continue to suffer with whatever browser they use on their i-device. I really don't care, and Apple has done this - not me, because they offer no way but purchasing their hardware to test their wonky browser engine. And yes, you can emulate an android device on MacOS, so don't bother trying that again. You don't need to purchase an android device to test on android.

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leptons 37 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

>I reject your assertion because it promulgates the lie of "browser choice".

The only lie being told in all of this is the one Apple tells when you install Firefox on an iOS device. It's not Firefox you're installing, it's Safari. Every browser on iOS is Safari - you have no choice at all.

>The health of the web as an open platform is defined by browser diversity, not browser choice.

Then put your money where your mouth is. If Safari can compete then let other browser engines on iOS. If it can't then it deserves to die. Artificially inflating it by forcing on iOS isn't the utopia you think it is.

>A bit of forced diversity is wildly preferable over another collapse towards monoculture.

Apple iOS is a monocoulture - every browser is Safari whether you want it or not.

There's no argument you can make to escape the fact that Apple is helping nobody but Apple by forcing Safari on iOS.

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vrganj 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

But there is no browser diversity on mobile. I'd like to use Firefox on iOS.

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simondotau 2 hours ago | parent [-]

There is absolutely browser diversity on mobile. ~30% of people are using Safari on iOS. ~70% of people are using Chrome on Android (and have the "choice" to use Firefox but don't).

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edoceo an hour ago | parent [-]

Maybe folk mean that iOS only uses Safari rendering regardless of which wrapper is running? Meaning Apple users don't have a choice, one rendering engine only, not diverse.

	▲	simondotau an hour ago \| parent [-]
		No, vrganj said mobile. There is browser diversity on mobile devices by virtue of operating system diversity on mobile devices.