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▲ cheonic4040 a day ago

> If investment managers are so good at investing why don’t they just make money for themselves instead of trying to get people to invest with them?

The good ones do.

Citadel Securities, Renaissance, Jane Street, HRT, Jump, consistently do 50%+ annual returns over the past 15-20 years. They obviously don’t accept outside investor money.

Now, hedge funds that accept outside money like DE Shaw, Bridgewater and shit, yeah, they barely outperform S&P500 after their fees.

Then at the bottom, you have financial advisors who underperform S&P500 after their fees, but these advisors provide emotional support, so that’s what you’re paying for.

▲solenoid0937 6 hours ago | parent | next [-]

All of the funds you name invest outside capital, just not publicly accessible.

You don't buy a hedge fund because it outperforms the S&P, that's just a bonus. You buy one because it has better returns for a given level of risk, and because the returns are uncorrelated with the S&P.

▲reisse a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> consistently do 50%+ annual returns over the past 15-20 years

That is only if you consider high-frequency trading investing. Which is very hard to, because on traditional investing timescales HFT is delta-neutral.

▲altcognito a day ago | parent | prev [-]

> The good ones do.

I mean, there isn't any evidence other than heresay.

▲cheonic4040 a day ago | parent | next [-]

> I mean, there isn't any evidence other than heresay

3x leverage on VTI/VOO yields 20% annual return over the past 30 years.

Even you, a passive index fund investor, can do this in your Schwab/Fidelity account.

Now consider algorithmic prop trading firms with 10x, 20x leverage. You do the math.

For reference, most people take 5x leverage on their house (20% down payment).

▲_se a day ago | parent | prev [-]

You think Citadel and Jane Street are fairy tales? The comment you replied to gave plenty of very pointed evidence. Even "bad" trading firms are disappointed to make 20% returns year over year...