| ▲ | Braxton1980 2 hours ago |
| Blame the people who put them in charge, voters |
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| ▲ | cowlevel 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] |
| Why stop there? Why did voters vote the way they did? |
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| ▲ | Zigurd 42 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | Nobody was shooting cruise missiles at the Yandex data centers. Seriously if you want to deny influence campaigns affecting US elections using a broad spectrum of influence ops, you also have to believe that advertising and PR doesn't work. It's also not just happening to US elections, perhaps not even primarily to US elections. Brexit, AfD, Orban, etc. were all boosted with a strategic goal in mind. | |
| ▲ | CalRobert 42 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Tbf trump has lost the popular vote more than he has won it. Voters picked Al Gore too… (and it seems likely that Florida was stolen) | |
| ▲ | WarmWash 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Populism is historically both popular and destructive. | | |
| ▲ | breakyerself an hour ago | parent [-] | | I'd argue FDR was a populist. It just depends on what kind of populism and to what end. | | |
| ▲ | cucumber3732842 35 minutes ago | parent [-] | | You don't get modern discontent and populism (and the current president) without the expansive (at the expense of congress and the states) executive branch. You don't get the expansive executive branch without 1930s populists and FDR. Obviously there's a lot more nuance and detail to it (the blame Nixon deserves being of specific note IMO) but the argument is there. So I'd argue that both the means are bad and the end |
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| ▲ | Buttons840 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Because people were (and still are) struggling and wanted something to change. Trump was the change candidate. Harris straight up said she wouldn't change anything. The election was a rejection of stability. At least, that's how people in the middle, who decide election results, saw things. We rolled the dice and lost. But things still aren't working very well in society, so we'll roll the dice again. | | |
| ▲ | Firaxus an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | Those are my conclusions as well, though I want to note anyone who paid attention to her campaign rather than getting it second hand or third off of vibes would not have made the claim that she “straight up said she wouldn’t have changed anything”. A lot of voters in the middle aren’t taking the time to understand why things seem to keep not changing (somewhat understandably so, but also unfortunately given the need for an engaged electorate in a healthy democracy). Both parties are being sticks in the mud, but one in particular is doing a lot more to keep change from happening than the other. In the usa we have an overemphasis on the president, but we’ve slow walked ourselves into a dysfunctional congress that just can’t do anything. The point of democracy is to let the best ideas win, and part of that is being able to try those ideas out, and respond when they don’t work. Having a senate with two votes per state regardless of population, that are only replaced a third at a time, with an archaic but also recent rule that effectively requires 60/100 vote to pass almost anything meaningful, is just a recipe for failure. End the filibuster as it is today. If you want a filibuster, force people to talk for it the way it worked for the first ~150 years of our country at least. | | |
| ▲ | cucumber3732842 31 minutes ago | parent [-] | | We should go back to indirect election of senators. Something needs to represent the will of the states as distinct entities. Having some slimy Mitt Romney types doing math about various state industries and interests when wording bills and trading votes would be a huge improvement over the equally slimy jerks we have now scheming up ways to serve their donors (who's interests correlate with the voters even less than the state's despite that bar being low to begin with) while leveraging abortion this guns that wedge issues to get re-elected despite screwing their voters. The distribution of senators to states would also matter less if they weren't direct elected and therefore as beholden to party platforms and funding systems and whatnot. | | |
| ▲ | triceratops 22 minutes ago | parent [-] | | > Something needs to represent the will of the states as distinct entities Why? And why is indirect selection of senators better for that? Won't it just hand power to backroom operators at the state level, instead of the people of the state? | | |
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| ▲ | jordanb an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | This basically. Change election after change election but nothing changes except the country keeps getting worse and more corrupt. You can see the same thing playing out in Brazil |
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| ▲ | watwut 12 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | They hoped the vote will hurt liberals, blue states, trans people and others they hate and dont consider real. But not themselves. They spend years listening to hate and learning to wish to destroy, so they voted for candidate consistent with that. And some simply found Trumpian corruption and abuse to be manly and cool. | |
| ▲ | Geeek 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | [flagged] | | |
| ▲ | barney54 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Because Joe Biden was too old and shouldn’t have started to run for President again and because Kamala Harris was a bad candidate? Or do you mean something else? You can complain about Trump, but the people had a choice. | | |
| ▲ | Geeek 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | Trump is both of the above, too old and a bad candidate - as you can see from the current state of our country. |
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| ▲ | felixgallo 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | You don't have to assume they're stupid, it's just that they're entirely surrounded by a bubble of increasingly protofascist craziness framed as reasonable opinion. Turn on Fox News sometime, or open Twitter. | | |
| ▲ | Geeek 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | If you allow yourself to live in such a bubble and don't seek alt knowledge, you're stupid. |
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| ▲ | spacephysics 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| In a democracy where everyone has the right to vote, I think the “downside” that must be accepted is there will exist a spectrum of voters. Voters who only listen to sound bites, voters who mindlessly vote tribally, to voters who research, voters who understand second and third order effects. We also can’t assume we have total information of how the elected official will act throughout their term. Even something as simple as, attractiveness mattering more in presidential candidates since the advent of television in homes. At the same time, we had a system whose establishment largely looked down on middle class Americans who didn't go to college. Early to mid 2000’s through the great recession saw the middle class tighten, with no real improvement to healthcare or affordability (attempts were made but ultimately medical costs are still rising). Many middle class people rely on things like cheap gas, child care, and affordable heating among others. Then you have a system whose leaders actively works to increase gas prices (regardless of EV incentives, you’re asking individuals to purchase new cars when a difference of 1 dollar in gas goes a long way), some states subsidizing green energy programs by additional taxes on oil and natural gas heating costs (just switch to heat pumps and take on a 0 interest loan for 10 years), and rising childcare costs partly due to regulations in childcare businesses. Then you have someone who claims to be an outsider (he wasn’t), who clowns on the existing elites in debates, and makes vast promises. The other party doesn’t say anything about positive change they’ll bring, just that they aren’t Him. Why not try something different than the status quo over the last 2 decades? With gas prices up, the Epstein scandal still unresolved, and another ME war, i think if many of middle America were told these would be the outcomes they would not have voted him in again. We should have more empathy for our fellow Americans, and try to understand each other instead of assuming they want the worst for your side. |
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| ▲ | kenmacd an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | We (most of the world) also have to deal with well funded external government organisations constantly pumping out propaganda attempting to make sure we don't work together or have empathy/understanding of each other's views. Push that through a media filter that optimizes for engagement and it's no wonder these things are happening. | |
| ▲ | vel0city 40 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I can agree with your position based on the election on 2016. He was a wildcard, and truly nobody could know exactly how he'd act in office. I can't agree with your position based on the election of 2024. We knew exactly who Trump was, and it was obvious the second term was only going to be more extreme and unhinged. | | |
| ▲ | SoftTalker 5 minutes ago | parent [-] | | And this is where you have to admit that the Democrats just ran a terrible candidate in '24. You might believe she was the better choice but she just did not appeal to the middle, and you need them to win. |
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| ▲ | andrewflnr an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Jan 6 alone was enough to make voting for Trump morally unacceptable. Voting for fear and money over the preservation of freedom is a classic moral failure and every one of the people who voted for Trump not only knows it, but pretends to make it a cornerstone of their political beliefs. If they use Epstein and gas prices as excuses, fuck them. | | |
| ▲ | spacephysics 8 minutes ago | parent [-] | | You assume those voters believe Jan 6 was an insurrection. Many of them don’t. Whether thats a fault of the media/bubble they’re in or gross naivety/negligence is a different discussion. If you go with the presumption Jan 6 was a mob that got out of hand (not my position, just one of the perspectives), then the idea that he wasn’t able to enact his agenda due to the opposing party, coupled with the shenanigans of the other option (no democrat primary for Kamala being one, with democrat party having done similar in the past with Bernie), then claims that the democrats are spinning Jan 6 and risking another term with him seem more reasonable. Whether I or you agree with those premise is separate from what the zeitgeist is for much of America |
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| ▲ | cucumber3732842 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | "The populism will continue until morale improves" | | |
| ▲ | Avicebron an hour ago | parent [-] | | The unrest will get more and more pronounced until affordability improves |
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| ▲ | estearum 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| > Without me, Trump would have lost the election, Dems would control the House and the Republicans would be 51-49 in the Senate. Such ingratitude. - Elon Musk, June 5 2025 (https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1930667528696828120) Voters obviously bear ultimate responsibility, but there's a lot more going on than just "voters are responsible." If that were true, corporations and wealthy individuals would have no interest in injecting money into politics, but alas... they do. |
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| ▲ | jgeada an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | You're supposed to regurgitate the Brandies "“If there be time to expose through discussion, the falsehoods and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence.” statement. You can never blame anything on propaganda and deliberate misinformation and manipulation of the public. And you have to assume all speakers have the same power and reach. Unrestricted free speech in practice falls under what Anatole characterized : "The law, in its majestic equality, forbids rich and poor alike to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal their bread." Elon can lie and propagandize at scale with impunity. But let's blame voters. | | |
| ▲ | Zigurd 37 minutes ago | parent [-] | | Looking up and down this thread and there are people you would agree with about our situation being awful, while being extremely reluctant to blame a planned and coordinated influence campaign by an adversary. It amounts to calling our fellow citizens chumps, and that's rude. The private sector, for slightly more benign reasons, and sometimes less benign reasons like keeping cigarettes from being blamed for cancer and emphysema, uses the same mechanisms to sell products. If that didn't work, nobody would pay for advertising and PR. |
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| ▲ | esseph 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | He also said after last time he was done putting so much money into politics, and then recently just dropped around another $300 million promoting republican candidates. | | |
| ▲ | estearum an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | Well after demonstrating shaky allegiance to the US and personal meddling in the Russia-Ukraine conflict, his companies are ripe for nationalization. He's got a lot to lose! | |
| ▲ | blitzar 26 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | > done putting so much money into politics Will be done by the end of the year (tm) |
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| ▲ | unethical_ban an hour ago | parent | prev [-] |
| Single-choice voting one of the least effective forms of democracy. |