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▲ extr 9 hours ago

I go back and forth on this. For awhile yes it took a lot of workflow tweaks and finesse to get directionally correct outputs (thinking back like mid 2025). I invested time in figuring that out, mostly because I was interested, but those skills are all obsolete now, you don't need to worry so much about context management and special instruction recipes or anything these days.

The meta at this point seems to be mostly around "knowing what to ask for". Eg: I suck at prompting for specific design tweaks, because I don't have the design vocabulary to be specific and articulate what I want. It's a lot of trial and error. I hear people who are developing full scale applications without a tech background run into the issue writ large. For now, I have an advantage over these people when building applications. But perhaps that's just one round of RL away from being obsolete too. Supposedly the model will eventually have such good taste in design/architecture/whatever there will be little point in asking for tweaks.

The only thing that seems relatively future-proof is just being able to communicate clearly what you're trying to do. Not how to do it, or even what success looks like. Perhaps an element of it is even as basic as being honest with yourself.

▲boorang 23 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

I did the same in about the same timeframe. I created a nice little hierarchy of "when writing tests, read docs/test-patterns.md" type logic. The idea was to put all of my personal heuristics about coding in a "lazy loaded" documentation directory. I'm able to generate Java code that is nearly the same as what I would generate if I was coding it myself. I haven't deleted my documentation or anything. I see people making this claim, did you literally delete your coding documentation or something?

It seems like, for example, some people like to use var and some people like to use the full type name in Java declarations. The LLM can't know your preference upfront, you need to tell it. When people talk about shitty vibe-code I assume it's because they didn't do these steps.

I could see (but wouldn't count on it) the argument that the current models are so good at recognizing patterns in the code that in a mature well-organized codebase they don't need to be told what the patterns are, but I haven't bothered with those experiments yet. If it ain't broke don't fix it was my thinking.

▲modo_ 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I think there are a lot of people using AI who aren't as familiar with these tools as us. We stop noticing a lot of the complexity when we pick it up gradually. There are so many powerful capabilities built into codex/ claude code that have little or no UI affordance.

it's tons of small things like choosing the right effort level for a task. or knowing when to ask for subagents. oh, you can have two threads working at the same time and communicating with each other? you can do /side to parallel path and fold that back into the main thread?

which of these things happens automatically, and which do you need to ask for? and does any of this still work the way it did a few months ago?

the list goes on forever. many users of AI are only just now getting comfortable with skills (and probably still writing bad skills unfortunately hah).

A lot of the specific things you learned may have become obsolete. But there's still a gap between what these tools can do and what most people know how to get them to do. Keeping up with that is a skill too, but perhaps not forever.

▲ForHackernews 8 hours ago | parent [-]

> and does any of this still work the way it did a few months ago?

For me this is why it's not worth it investing much time and effort learning any specific AI workflow. Remember "prompt engineering"? Remember "Ralph loops"?

I'll play with various harnesses but until things settle down in a few years I'm not going to learn Claude Code the way I learned SQL.

▲makerofthings an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

We have graduates come in and master development with agents in a few days. There's really not that much to it. There are a lot of people out there trying to make it sound difficult. Maybe to make themselves feel better, maybe to try and make money?

▲misterderpie 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> The meta at this point seems to be mostly around "knowing what to ask for"

We came full circle on the problem that also exists with Google Search, and why so many people don't get good results out of it.

> For now, I have an advantage over these people when building applications. But perhaps that's just one round of RL away from being obsolete too.

I don't have a crystal ball, but my eggs are in the basket of "It isn't, and it won't be"

> The only thing that seems relatively future-proof is just being able to communicate clearly what you're trying to do

This somehow contradicts the previous statement. The advantage you have is, because of domain knowledge expertise, you're able to articulate what you want. It's not that you knowing what LazyLoading is that you now can describe it better, you can immediately tell that when your Frontend stalls for 5 seconds after hitting the "Load" button, perhaps it eagerly loads and blocks.

▲mjr00 7 hours ago | parent | next [-]

> We came full circle on the problem that also exists with Google Search, and why so many people don't get good results out of it.

yeah. I spent the first 15 years of my career being amazed at how many problems people came to me with which I was able to resolve in 10 minutes with a simple google search.

I suspect I will spend the next 15 years of my career being amazed at how many problems people come to me with which I am able to resolve in 10 minutes with a simple LLM prompt.

▲rubikscube09 an hour ago | parent | next [-]

I'm a TA for a calculus course and I really don't understand why people come to my office hours to ask me questions anymore.

▲comboy 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

If I had a HN comments wall I'd hang this one on there.

▲extr 9 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

I think the knowledge is one level higher at this point. It’s not LazyLoading that you need to know about, it’s just that it can and should be faster. That you can demand more (and sometimes you can’t). It’s hard to know the difference when you’re not in your area of expertise.

Fair point on the contradiction. I don’t have the answers either.

▲misterderpie 9 hours ago | parent [-]

> It’s hard to know the difference when you’re not in your area of expertise.

I may be misunderstanding your earlier statement then. The moat here is the knowledge, or how would the next iteration of RL solve that?

> it’s just that it can and should be faster.

Not sure if "Make it faster" works, it sounds like "Make no mistakes" 2.0

▲0c3ca83 8 hours ago | parent | next [-]

If we figure out long horizon tasks, why wouldn't you be able to ask it to send out a user survey, prioritize the next iteration of work based on the results, and then execute on it?

These things are already figuring out how to use hidden message boards to pass information between themselves for long running tasks. I see no reason we wouldn't be able to automate the whole product life cycle eventually.

▲Multicomp 8 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

i have been vibing out a godot game which is a 3d voxel map thing lately. i had it on software webgl compatibility output and just demanded it figure out what the slowdown was on the simulation over 3 days of back and forth. it turned off backfaces and invisible geomeetry and locked render resolution at 1080p and built in diagnostic telemetry and chopped up the level where doors separate rooms until now, still with no hw acceleration, the framerate is in 60fps with some frame drops, it started at 12 fps.

brute forcing performance optimization for a personal project by having only handwavy tricks ive read about from online and repeatedly setting targets until the magic box gives me what i know it can do means that eventually the game did what i wanted with those. yes baked lighting was needed.

next, i an going to aim for 60fps on a windos xp box just for the challenge. we had quake and such run blisteringly fast on weaker boxes than those, surely my empty museum tour of a 3d game can do the same with the graphical voxel and crappy looking models it does now.

real pro grade work is beyond vibing out and not caring about poor quality. but it scratched my itch and gave me the computer software i wanted and with way less effort than doing it for realz would require. i love programming itself on its own time (going to learn nasm and someday do a hexagonal architecture with actor model in idris just to add up my nerd trophies together) at times, but using llms lets me do my random hairbrained ideas much more easily for what i put into it than not existing in the past.

▲prmph 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I don't know. Claude Opus 5.5 still makes rudimentary mistakes all the time as I use it.

More than that, it cannot go beyond a certain level. Like a dog that can only do dog-level actions. I've lost count of the number of times I step back, take a critical look at what it has been hacking away at for hours, which would seem OK, but can be replaced by a much more effective architecture.

For the foreseeable future, a human is still very much needed in the driver's seat.

▲skew-aberration 8 hours ago | parent [-]

Individual agents do suffer from making dumb assumptions and tunnel vision. But that can be improved significantly by using multiple agents, with some assigned to just review and critique the workers' outputs. Personally, I've not found this useful because there's just so many layers between you and the work. Maintaining intent is much harder.

▲Archer6621 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Agree. Maybe such soft skills will become a lot more important soon, for instance also the ability to translate feelings into useful information, since LLMs cannot feel as humans do.

Personally I've been very hesitant to deep-dive into putting together the perfect AI-workflow, I've been sticking to just using the conversational/chat modality for pretty much everything, usually that gets me as far as I need. It's just really hard to justify spending time on it when it all potentially gets turned upside down next month again.

▲danielmarkbruce 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

It seems unlikely a few rounds of rl are going to fix the following problem: most things are more complex than they seem on the surface, and decisions to be made. There are always trade-offs.

▲cousinbryce 9 hours ago | parent [-]

You don’t have to make any decisions then you have to decide if what it made is correct and communicate that. For all levels of detail that matter

▲leecommamichael 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

People preached the wrong imperative before "or get left behind." Turns out they really meant "get in now and re-evaluate everything you think you know every month in perpetuity or get left behind." I'll be here typing the code until the dust settles, and do my thinking then.

▲ 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]
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▲aprilthird2021 an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> The only thing that seems relatively future-proof is just being able to communicate clearly what you're trying to do. Not how to do it, or even what success looks like.

And knowing the right thing to ask for and not giving it wrong assumptions. And knowing, somewhat, how it interprets certain words and phrases.

Huh, just like any tool, you have to know how to use it

▲ModernMech 9 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

If you don't have specifics about what success is, what it looks like, and how it works, then it seems like correct output is almost anything.

▲extr 9 hours ago | parent [-]

Well, that’s true to an extent, but sometimes you need to ”play” a bit before you (or the model) can “work”, if that makes sense. And it’s hard to know the right kind of “play” without experience in the area, this is something the models can’t yet do.