| ▲ | jedberg a day ago |
| > but we really need to think about how the next group of people are going to learn the skills and nuance to applying them That's what school is for. For the last 150 years we've automated a bunch of things, and then we send people to school to learn how those automations work, so they can make better automations. Maybe law school will have to be a year longer. Or maybe some forward thinking firms will have new associates check the work of the LLM to gain that experience. |
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| ▲ | Arainach a day ago | parent | next [-] |
| > That's what school is for. It's not. We have advanced CNC mills and lathes, and apprentices still learn doing things manually to understand how the tools work, their failure modes, and more. There are machines that mix drinks, but you still learn to bartend by doing it manually and making mistakes, not starting out with machines. Same with writing. Same with software. Doing the "simple", automatable thing is how you learn how the system works. School can't be the same. Plenty of people have tried, but being effective in the real world is different. In theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice, they're not. |
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| ▲ | Xirdus a day ago | parent | next [-] | | > There are machines that mix drinks, but you still learn to bartend by doing it manually and making mistakes, not starting out with machines. You could say the same about grilling burgers. And yet, there are millions of burger cooks around the world grilling hundreds of millions of patties everyday with zero knowledge of how to grill burgers, at McDonald's and other bottom of the barrel fast food chains. If not for the social aspect of being asked what you want for a drink and then watching it being made, bartenders would've already been replaced by mixer kiosks by now. | | |
| ▲ | SJC_Hacker a day ago | parent [-] | | > You could say the same about grilling burgers. And yet, there are millions of burger cooks around the world grilling hundreds of millions of patties everyday with zero knowledge of how to grill burgers, at McDonald's and other bottom of the barrel fast food chains. If there are cooks successfully grilling burgers, I think they would have to have knowledge of how to grill burgers. | | |
| ▲ | Xirdus a day ago | parent [-] | | It was literally pressing one button. A double sided grill closed, 40 seconds later it opened back up and 8 perfectly cooked patties are ready. That was 15 years ago in eastern Europe, they've replaced it with an even more automated process at least once since. | | |
| ▲ | SoftTalker 12 hours ago | parent [-] | | The "clamshell" grill was introduced at McDonald's in the 1980s. Prior to that you cooked the burgers on a flat grill, it was still all by timer but you had to sear-press and turn the burgers by hand. Still a very defined process with almost no need for judgement. |
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| ▲ | ctippett a day ago | parent | prev [-] | | > In theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice, they're not.
This is such beautiful rhetoric. | | |
| ▲ | Arainach a day ago | parent [-] | | It's not mine originally, but it's been attributed to so many people that I don't know who to credit. |
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| ▲ | nitroedge a day ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| In the future, I think AI lawyers will be arguing with AI lawyers for the most part. Like how people use AI to write their resume and then the HR department uses AI to screen the resumes, the 2 AI's duke it out. |
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| ▲ | skinfaxi a day ago | parent | next [-] | | Governments want to use machines to decide who to kill. As the Overton window shifts it seems natural that machines will adjudicate, too. | | |
| ▲ | nitroedge a day ago | parent [-] | | Makes sense and money will still be valuable and can be used to lobby/influence the AI judges just like how people judges are now too | | |
| ▲ | noduerme a day ago | parent [-] | | You know the observation that the average American commits three felonies a day, or Beria's evil classic "show me the man and I'll find you the crime"? I'd be more worried about an AI judge applying that approach, and not being able to bribe the thing. After all, what use does an AI judge have for money? | | |
| ▲ | ryandrake a day ago | parent [-] | | When mass surveillance becomes complete and hooked up to AI that can analyze every person, 24/7, we will all go home every night to a daily ticket listing every little minor crime we committed throughout the day, with the fine payment on autopay. Law Enforcement Wet Dream. | | |
| ▲ | noduerme 21 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Yeah. It's true, and what a horror. We see this coming, and we intend to survive and have nothing to lose... | |
| ▲ | skinfaxi 15 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Reminds me of Demolition Man. |
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| ▲ | Loquebantur a day ago | parent | prev [-] | | I get the impression, that's all "too abstract" for people. Will they understand the point when football gets taken over by AI, robot players and all? Or won't they even stop at AI pastors and pray for the second coming of "Super J AI"? | | |
| ▲ | noduerme a day ago | parent [-] | | It's funny, I've been working on a short story in which, 20 years from now, the only job still exclusively reserved for humans is professional sports. When a pitcher loses his hand during the World Series in a freak accident with a food processor, a detective has to investigate the AI gambling cartel and the IoT devices it's infiltrated... |
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| ▲ | Roxo 20 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| School is mostly designed to dump information on people's heads. To function in a business and be able to DO things effectively, you need experience. Schools came up with internships (which originated in the apprenticeship system) because they could not provide this experience, so how do you expect people to gain the necessary knowledge just from schools if there are no more internships or junior roles? |
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| ▲ | jamesforestwest a day ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Still, school isn't quite the same as learning skills through work experience, is it? |
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| ▲ | eru a day ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| > That's what school is for. For the last 150 years we've automated a bunch of things, and then we send people to school to learn how those automations work, [...] Mostly agreed here. > so they can make better automations. That's not true at all. Aspiring accountants learn how to use spreadsheets, instead of doing their sums by hand. But we don't expect them to make better versions of MS Excel or come up with LLMs that can do all of that for them. |
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| ▲ | piker a day ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| > Maybe law school will have to be a year longer. Law school is already 3 years long in the US (after 4 years of undergrad), and most agree the second two are a complete waste of time. Other jurisdictions are different, but the US market is by far the largest. |
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| ▲ | Arainach a day ago | parent [-] | | Who is "most"? Is this the same "most" that thinks college degrees are pointless and you should just go found a company (i.e. those that aren't paying attention and just want a credential)? | | |
| ▲ | snitty a day ago | parent [-] | | It’s people who graduated law school. First year was brutal. Second and third were a breeze and kind of boring. The first year is really teaching you the lingo and how to think like a lawyer. After that it’s almost entirely electives and rarely requires hard work (Fed Courts being the exception). | | |
| ▲ | noduerme a day ago | parent [-] | | I've also heard of successful lawyers who did correspondence classes and night school for 18 months or something and just went and took the bar exam. I guess those guys mostly make their money by putting up billboards and farming out referrals? | | |
| ▲ | snitty a day ago | parent | next [-] | | >I guess those guys mostly make their money by putting up billboards and farming out referrals? I don't know why the manner in which someone studied law would have any impact on how or what they practice now. Most of the law and skill learned is by actually practicing, not what you learn in law school. Law school is about how to think like a lawyer, not how to practice law. Pretty much any even mid-sized legal market is going to have really well-respected attorneys who graduated from some fancy top 5 law school, and some really well-respected attorneys who graduated from a local law school where they took night classes. | | |
| ▲ | noduerme a day ago | parent | next [-] | | The manner in which a lawyer studied obviously impacts their practice. If someone passes the bar at the age of 35 without a degree from anywhere, they're not going to be hired as an associate. If they want to make money, they're going to be a sole practitioner, and need to spend their time attracting clients. The economics of that naturally lead to a situation where a lawyer would arbitrage between paying for ads and doling out referrals. That's not to say they can't think like a lawyer or be a great lawyer, just that the starting point and the ladder to making money are very different from both that of a 26-year-old grad entering a firm and that of someone who leaves a firm to start their own practice. | |
| ▲ | ryandrake a day ago | parent | prev [-] | | So many employers over-index on name brand credentials though. In Law and otherwise. In tech we’ve all witnessed a brilliant, hard working, experienced developer candidate who went to a no name school get overlooked in favor of some doofus who happened to go to Stanford. |
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| ▲ | TheNoobRoxas a day ago | parent | prev [-] | | Are we talking about a famous lawyer in Albuquerque? |
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| ▲ | intended a day ago | parent | prev [-] |
| True, but have you seen the state of education in the year of our Ai-ssiah, 2026? |