| ▲ | MisterMunchkin 11 hours ago |
| Interesting. The government has been suggesting war with Russia is coming. This would be a great initial move. Take out the European food supply network, then hit things like the grid and the internet. It's funny because red storm rising is an old book at this point, but it's pretty accurately shown exactly how conflict with Russia plays out. Even down to Russia realising it is about to run out of diesel... causing it to invade Europe while it still can. |
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| ▲ | mvdwoord 11 hours ago | parent | next [-] |
| An apt time to revisit this gem... https://www.imdb.com/title/tt4192998/ |
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| ▲ | hn_submit 11 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Russia will never attack NATO, that would be their death knell. NATO is a hundred times stronger than Ukraine, who are kicking Russia's ass as we speak. I even suspect that if Putin were to order an attack he would be put down by his own people. Yes, they're threatening and doing some low-key sabotaging (through third-parties for plausible deniability, which is good for us since we can choose not to respond), but they're shying away from actually killing people through means that might be directly attributed to them (like with a Shahed drone). I do accept that Russia wants to hurt NATO for our support of Ukraine, but there's a limit to how far they can go. |
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| ▲ | WinstonSmith84 10 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | > Russia will never attack NATO You think about a frontal attack like in Ukraine, and maybe you're right. But Russia is already waging a much more subtle war against NATO. Look at who's leading the US. Look at Brexit. Or look at who could soon lead France or Germany... Their conventional army may be weak, but they don't need to fire a bullet either. | | |
| ▲ | noah_buddy 5 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Russia is leading these efforts in the way of Sun Tzu and all that “never stop an enemy in the process of making a mistake.” | | | |
| ▲ | hn_submit 10 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Look at the former Soviet republics that helped Russia win WWII by supplying it with an almost limitless supply of soldiers. All of them have refused to allow their citizens to fight for Russia in Ukraine. And if you know your history you'd know that Russia had to pull out of WWI because the country literally ran out of men during the conflict. Their political influence, even with right-wing politicians who might be skewed their way, will be limited. And could change at any moment as we've seen with Orban. | | |
| ▲ | jltsiren 6 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | > And if you know your history you'd know that Russia had to pull out of WWI because the country literally ran out of men during the conflict. Russia continued WW1 with a civil war that lasted until 1922. Their military deaths were quite evenly split between the world war stage and the civil war stage. | |
| ▲ | wiseowise 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Literally everything you’ve stated is false. Every statement. A) Lots of Russians died during WW2, it wasn’t “evil Russia sends troops from occupied republics to fight for them while Russians sit back”. B) Lots of mercenaries from post-Soviet republics fight for money on Russias side now C) Russia didn’t pull out because they’ve run out of men. Where did you get this? | | |
| ▲ | hn_submit 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | Of course many Russians died too. But the bulk of the casualties were Soviet soldiers from the Asian republics. There are a couple of good WWI documentaries on YouTube which you can watch for free. You'll find that C) is the truth. |
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| ▲ | epolanski 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | > because the country literally ran out of men during the conflict I wonder where then the millions of soldiers that fought the russian civil war came from. |
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| ▲ | Flere-Imsaho 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > NATO is a hundred times stronger than Ukraine, And the might of the US/UK/etc are a hundred times stronger than the Taliban in Afghanistan, however who ended up winning that war? Or how about Vietnam? My point being: the size/capability of a military doesn't necessarily result in a win. I think NATO forces have a particular problem of being pretty unmotivated about Ukraine winning. | | |
| ▲ | vrganj 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | Also, everyone thought Russia would take Ukraine in a few days. Conventional military powers sure seem like they were overrated. Now Russia is one of only two players with years of experience in the latest generation of warfare, while NATO is still stuck in the 20th century. |
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| ▲ | torginus 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I would like this to be true but I'm not sure (at least when talking about NATO = Continental Europe). A quick search reveals Russia made 41 jet fighters last year, Europe made 40. I suspect when it comes to the production of certain kinds of advanced war materiel, like missiles, shells or drones, Europe lags or doesn't have a clear advantage. GDP doesn't matter, despite European defense stocks benefiting majorly from the Ukraine war, this didn't seem to have translated into a similar increase in output, which indicates there are bottlenecks in the system somewhere. | |
| ▲ | epolanski 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > Russia will never attack NATO You're assuming rational behavior, but time and time again world leaders have demonstrated that they will pursue erratic behavior if their feelings or vibe suggest them that behavior to be their way out of their own trouble. | |
| ▲ | wiseowise 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | You do know that wars are not “muh supurmun is bazzilion times stronger than your balk!!”? Russia doesn’t need direct attack on NATO to intimidate, or even destroy the alliance. And even if it did attack NATO member, it is going to be guess what? A discussion. Just like what they have right now. It’s not going to be DEFCON style theatrical attack from the united West on Russia. You know what happens during WW2? When Russia and Germany carved up Poland? Nothing happened when France declared war on Germany. There was a period of 8 months where they just stared at each other. It was called “Phoney war”. Chances are we might witness Russia just steam rolling Baltics while the West talks between each other what to do next. |
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| ▲ | chrisjj 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| > This would be a great initial move. Take out the European food supply network So the current incident was a preemptive alert by Brussels. |
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| ▲ | SanjayMehta 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Russia is out of diesel because they're shipping it to Trump. |
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| ▲ | 4gotunameagain 11 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
| Russia cannot invade Europe, that is nonsense peddled by the EU establishment to support their idiotic military Keynesianism as part of a plan to reboot EU manufacturing. They are struggling to take a couple of villages in Ukraine, why would they invade the EU. |
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| ▲ | wongarsu 11 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | To be fair, that they are struggling to take over a couple of villages in Ukraine is in large parts due to the intensified arms and ammunition production of the entire EU (and in the past that of the US). And that's only enough for a standstill | | |
| ▲ | flohofwoe 11 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Ukraine did a spectacular job to stop the full-scale invasion in the initial hours, days and weeks when there wasn't much international help yet though (and I guess from that moment on the war didn't go quite according to plan from the Russian PoV). | | |
| ▲ | ivan_gammel 11 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Let‘s not underestimate the corruption within Russian intelligence services, that resulted in invasion without any meaningful military planning. They spent the budgets corrupting Ukrainian elites and brainwashing population of the Eastern Ukraine, probably taking a cut in their own pockets, but they were not expecting to be held accountable for the result. The success of Ukraine in early days was in the element of surprise. Their resistance was not expected by Russian leadership, and the invasion itself was not expected by the middle ranks of Russian military. It did not go according to the plan, but plans change, and this war demonstrated weaknesses of all major powers - in a way, Russia did tick some boxes. As successful Ukrainians were in that moment, NATO has lost the war for them failing to mobilize in time, also taken by the surprise (as if CIA weren’t warning months ahead that this is going to happen).
If Patriots, tanks and ammo would start flowing in the first weeks, maybe we would see peace in Istanbul accords in 2022 already. | |
| ▲ | lukan 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | They did a spectacular job, but there were already quite a few NATO weapons shipped to them since 2014. | |
| ▲ | scns 11 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Ukraine took out a Yandex data center, which made the pro Trump bot traffic drop. https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cw0k0g57mk3zo | | |
| ▲ | sillyfluke 11 hours ago | parent [-] | | The article you linked to says nothing about the connection to pro-Trump bot traffic fyi | | |
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| ▲ | hn_submit 10 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Ukraine could've done much better if they'd mobilized and fortified their borders before the invasion. But Zelensky refused to do so (despite warnings from the U.S.) because war with Russia was hugely impopular with voters in Ukraine before the actual attack. They'd much rather stick their heads in the sand. So a lot of their territorial loss can be attributed to his inaction. If they'd laid several million landmines in the Donbass the Russian attack would've been stumped and the occupied Crimea would've been easy prey. | | |
| ▲ | asdff 5 hours ago | parent [-] | | Did they have capacity to do that at the time? Maybe Russia's first move would simply be elsewhere. there is a lot of border to mine especially when you include belarus. | | |
| ▲ | hn_submit 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | They could've acquired the landmines from the U.S. since Biden was in the White House at the time. If you mobilize your armed forces and move all your soldiers to the border and dig them in you'll dissuade an attacker from invading. | | |
| ▲ | asdff 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | That's the thing though, between russia and belarus its over a 1000 mile border they would have had to secure. |
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| ▲ | asdff 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | That is fair to say today, but not when the war began. | |
| ▲ | torginus 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Afaik this really isn't true. Most of the drone parts used both by Russia and Ukraine are coming from China, or Soviet surplus. It used to be much more true. The Biden admin sent a lot more US weapons to fight Russia, Trump used to be much more amenable to send similar weapons provided somebody paid for it. Nowadays US materiel is either tied up in the middle east or somewhere else (Patriots), or has been neutralized by Russian EW (HIMARS), or the US is just unwilling to part with it for whatever justification. | |
| ▲ | brookst 11 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Standstill with Ukraine looks bad, and authoritarian regimes can survive almost anything except looking bad. Responding to a NATO “attack” from Estonia, Putin can pivot to a bigger enemy where of course Russia has to employ universal conscription / nuclear weapons / whatever. The country must unite against this unprovoked western attack, etc, etc. | | |
| ▲ | hn_submit 9 hours ago | parent [-] | | Nuclear weapons are no option. Russia would be wiped off the map before they could push that button. A single Tomahawk missile could obliterate Moscow which would immediately end the war because Russia is extremely centralized. It's the reason almost 80% of all Russian SAM capability is stationed around the city. Putin is unpredictable but he's not stupid. You don't become president of Russia by being stupid. | | |
| ▲ | wiseowise 4 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | > A single Tomahawk missile could obliterate Moscow Do you even know how big Moscow is? And nuclear Tomahawks were discontinued. Even if they weren’t, you’d need dozens to obliterate Moscow. | | | |
| ▲ | smallstepforman 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Putin is extremelly predictable, which allows the western warmongers to do nefarious things knowing very well he’ll assess the long term risks and be very cautious and accept limited damage to prevent a larger conflict. Use your grey matter and think logically instead of parroting propaganda. | | |
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| ▲ | rwyinuse 11 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Large scale invasion is not likely, but they could try some limited operation to test NATO's unity. Most likely location would be somewhere in the Baltics. | | |
| ▲ | fennecfoxy 11 hours ago | parent [-] | | Lmao they literally assassinate people with nerve agents on British soil as is and get told they're naughty boys and not to do it again please. I think an actual invasion would initiate a very serious and deadly response, but their constant pranks will continue to go unpunished (unfortunately). |
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| ▲ | _iunl 11 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I have read some Asian country's (who are friendly with Russians) government foreign affairs required readings that is like 2 year old by now. Those materials say Russia is being cornered. They had no other option to but to invade Ukraine. But with sanctions they are more cornered and are desparate. They thought China would ally would them but China's selective neutrality is making them desparate. Those documents say that Russia never actually deployed their main regiments and only worked with mercenaries and allied country armies. No body knows how much petro product Russia is producing or who is buying them. Those diplomatic documents suggest treating simultaneously as a black box and a cornered animal. The financial sanctions actually was a double edged sword considering UK essentially blocked all foreign transactions even for international infrastructure investments Russia made to foreign countries and at the same time from a global perspective UK was not seen as a reliable financial partner. So, Russia is desparate, EU is desparate but they are not allowed to sit in a table to negotiate... Because US will not allow that. If a war happens across EU every party invovled will see this is to be positive thing because for the last decade economies has slowed down and political views has become extremely polarizing. A war at a massive scale brings everyone together for their country and economy jumpstarts. | | |
| ▲ | pjc50 11 hours ago | parent [-] | | > They had no other option to but to invade Ukraine This is of course a stupid lie they are telling themselves. They've been invading Ukraine since 2014. They had the option of being good international citizens, with an elite flying to the west and buying some football teams for their entertainment, but they chose not to do that. > Russia is desparate, EU is desparate but they are not allowed to sit in a table to negotiate... Because US will not allow that. Russia can retreat inside their internationally recognized borders at any time. The problem is they don't want to sue for peace because that would admit losing, and include losing illegally annexed territory. They've made no serious attempts at even starting negotiations with Europe, while escalating "hybrid warfare". |
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| ▲ | wiseowise 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I might struggle to occupy your garden, but how are you going to stop me from drilling holes in your house and planting lots of rats so they destroy your life and you run away yourself? | |
| ▲ | goobatrooba 11 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Not Europe but a few Baltic states are feasible. No one says they can hold it, but Putin has his own reasons so we should not think we can conclude on future Russian actions based on what we consider reasonable - e.g. no one predicted that a war on Ukraine was likely as it seemed to be completely irrational and self-defeating. If nothing else, war has been many times convenient to keep regimes in power (see Bush post 9/11 for an obvious example). Putin might want to strengthen his case. See absurd discussions / push for a "Republic of Narva" as an example cause belli. | | |
| ▲ | flohofwoe 10 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | May sound like nitpicking, but the Baltic states are Europe both geographically and organizationally (eg members of the EU). | |
| ▲ | noah_buddy 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | “The West is leading Ukraine down the primrose path,” Mearsheimer averred in 2015, “and the end result is that Ukraine is going to get wrecked.” https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/09/opinion/ukraine-russia-in... A sect of realpolitik theorists outlined why Russia would be compelled to invade Ukraine. Even Kissinger thought that expansion of NATO westward would compel war with Russia. To say no one predicted this or that it’s self-defeating for Russia is a mistake of analysis. The war logically follows from Russia’s security goals. | | |
| ▲ | mopsi 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | > The war logically follows from Russia’s security goals.
This framing is found only in propaganda put out for foreign consumption. Professionals like Kozyrev, who was the minister or foreign affairs of the Russian Federation (1990-1996) and in charge of rebuilding RF's international relations after the disintegration of the USSR, have openly called this bullshit that only manipulated idiots believe, because the "security goals" argument makes no sense whatsoever if you spend more than 10 seconds on it.According to Kozyrev, instead of a patchwork of dysfunctional countries at war with each other like in the former Yugoslavia (with overspilling effects on Russia), EU and NATO integration helped build modern, peaceful and predictable countries in Central and Eastern Europe, which in practical terms meant "free-of-charge security" (his term) for Russia. What's there to complain about? Furthermore, Mearsheimer et al treat countries as monoliths and completely ignore the competing interests of groups and individuals within them. Russia of the early 1990s was a flawed democracy; today it is a totalitarian dictatorship. The war against Ukraine is a downstream effect of the destruction of Russian democracy and consolidation of absolute power into the hands of Putin's security apparatus gang. Putin wants to be remembered as a "great ruler" and that's all there is to it; a small man who managed to gain absolute power, no different from Hitler. |
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| ▲ | flohofwoe 11 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Never underestimate the stupidity and irrationality of autocratic governments. Putin also decided to invade Ukraine after all even though he should have known better. | |
| ▲ | epolanski 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > They are struggling to take a couple of villages in Ukraine, why would they invade the EU. Because Russian leadership is acting in self interest and preservation and a neverending state of war might be what secures its own position and power. | |
| ▲ | SanjayMehta 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Europe is rearming on the lines of the 1930s, because Russia is struggling to take a couple of villages. They can't take Kiev but they're threatening Paris. | |
| ▲ | torlok 11 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | They cannot win, but they can invade. We're already in a hybrid war. The threat is real and Europe needs to be prepared and be able to stand on its own, especially now that also the US is not only directly threatening EU countries, but is acting against EU security both globally and internally by supporting separatist neo-Nazi pro-Putin parties. |
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