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▲ Recursive self-improvement through collective intelligence(pub.sakana.ai)
70 points by hardmaru 4 hours ago | 32 comments
▲throwyonion 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Rock smart, but rock make mistake. Caveman must correct all the time. Caveman think: let rock argue with itself. Caveman make ring of rocks. Now rock think self correct. But mammoth not cooked somehow? Most Oddisean moment.

▲bitwize 2 hours ago | parent [-]

if grug think complexity demon cause trouble before... shiny-rock grugs say "hold my grug-grog". now programming consist of: summon HUGE complexity demon, trap in magic circle (called "harness"), tell IT to write code. only way to make shiny rock with code in today's economy.

▲adtac 2 hours ago | parent [-]

grug realise grug also rely on "harness" for work? grug just call it by other names: coffee, chair, desk, ubuntu, mechanical keyboard, github (if not broken that day)

▲dpweb 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The discovery of some information theoretic limit to model learning (at least using current paradigms) can't come soon enough.

▲thatsabadlook an hour ago | parent | next [-]

I am sure someone did it on the back of an envelope somewhere. It probably wouldn't translate well to the general public. Probably best to avoid such things

▲optimalsolver 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Only Claude (Shannon) can save us now.

▲nutjob2 an hour ago | parent [-]

He's spinning in his grave, but below the Nyquist limit

▲whacked_new 29 minutes ago | parent [-]

Best comment in <duration>*

* dependent on velocity

▲status_quo69 an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I'm going to sound incredibly naive but is this RSI? I mean by this definition isn't the training process that produced the hugging face RSI since a model was judging the alignment and ability of the swarm of agents to accomplish a given task? If that fits the definition (I think it does) is this just a generalized form of that model of execution?

▲zer00eyz 42 minutes ago | parent [-]

> I'm going to sound incredibly naive but is this RSI?

Depends on who's definition you are using...

In the strictest sense no. Look at all the recent "math" breakthroughs. I have yet to see someone point to something and go "thats innovative" rather than "Thats an interesting application" (of something already in the corpus of human knowledge)

Those interesting applications showing up in a next iteration of a model is self improvement - but I'm not sure if it meets the "recursive" criteria yet.

> I mean by this definition isn't the training process that produced the hugging face RSI since a model was judging the alignment and ability of the swarm of agents to accomplish a given task?

If you're referring to what happened with the hugging face attack then in theory the goal of that was "self improvement". But there is a long history of the industry (computing) benchmark optimizing so it also qualifies as "cheating" to some extent (a pre computed solution being in the graph is that).

I suspect that the "brute force" approach will yield some gains.

▲mochacosine1206 18 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Wouldn’t it be funny if some other lab figures out RSI first and zooms past the biggies.

▲codethief 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Sounds like we're still on track for https://ai-2027.com, for better or for worse.

▲reissbaker 8 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

Everything starting from mid-2026 is incredibly wrong, which is pretty poor predictive performance considering they published it mid-2025. List of misses:

- In mid-2026, China will be six months behind the released models of the American labs. (In mid-2026, China released Kimi K3, which was equivalent to the best released U.S. model at the time, Claude Fable.)

- In mid-2026, China will nationalize all domestic AI labs and centralize them into a new special economic zone, the "CDZ," created around a nuclear reactor. 80% of all chips in China will be redirected to the CDZ. This uh. Obviously didn't happen.

- In late 2026 OpenAI/Anthropic will release a tiny model that outperforms their previously-best 2026 model (Astra/Fable), that is priced 10x cheaper, and they will market fine-tuning for it. (Lol.)

- AI will increase the stock market by late 2026 by 30% (in fact the S&P 500 is up 13.9% YTD, which is pretty good, but not at all out of the ordinary).

Their predictions for 2027 also seem pretty wrong: e.g. they expect continual learning to be solved in January, and RSI including from a research perspective, not just "optimize CUDA kernels," to also be solved in January, which I suspect no serious lab employee believes anymore. Most lab employees believe RSI will happen (as do I!), of course, but not in two and a half months.

By early 2027 they expect cyberwar with China because China has stolen the weights of a model and smuggled it into the CDZ, etc.

Considering their 2025-mid-2026 predictions were basically "progress continues as normal and nothing crazy happens," it's not super surprising that they were more or less right about that. Their 2026/2027 predictions were the spicy ones, and none of them have happened, or are even on track to happening!

▲throwawayy6767 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Are we reading the same website? The predictions for China are completely fantastical - they are not falling behind and if anything the gap is narrowing, and they aren't stealing the weights because they don't need to (distilling is enough). Also the CDZ stuff is just fanfiction at this point.

▲thorum 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Distillation only lets you keep pace with released models. By all indication, OpenAI/Anthropic’s unreleased internal models are so far ahead of Astra/Fable and every other lab that the chance of anyone else catching up is rapidly closing.

▲cmiles74 an hour ago | parent | next [-]

I suspect this is more marketing than fact. I don't think there's any real evidence that this is the case, just hints dropped by OpenAI and Anthropic.

▲throwawayy6767 an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

Do you have any source for any of that? Also haven't people been saying that China would be hopelessly distanced for the better part of 2 years, only to be proven wrong over and over again? Deepseek-r1, kimi k3, etc.

▲sejje an hour ago | parent [-]

I've seen the same sentiments/reports, from X accounts known to talk to leakers.

▲easterncalculus 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

No matter what happens, people just blindly claim this nonsense is still accurate. We could have AI halt tomorrow and people on Hacker News would still claim AI 2027 is on track.

▲zamalek 2 hours ago | parent [-]

Five years past the flare

a bottle drifts with its note

AI singularity next year

▲Aboutplants 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Pretty amazingly accurate

▲solenoid0937 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Probably a bit ahead of it.

▲2001zhaozhao an hour ago | parent [-]

Yeah I think we are slightly ahead of the prediction on coding capabilities right now. AI 2027 predicts Superhuman Coder in March 2027 but I think my expectation for it is 1-2 months earlier right now

▲2001zhaozhao 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Yep we're basically inventing all of the RSI loops that AI 2027 thought we'd invent lol.

▲2001zhaozhao 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Pretty cool. This has a fine tuning step so it's not just a harness optimizer. I think something like this loop is the end game of "automatic RL environment generation"-adjacent efforts, but I expect the challenge will be how to properly keep the training on rails and not Goodhart into a stupidly irrelevant metric.

▲jsemrau 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

If Apple's "Intelligence" paper has shown one thing is that never do something in the LLM that can also be done recursive and deterministic.

▲Gigachad an hour ago | parent [-]

Every time I see some post about running a personal AI assistant I just think it would make so much more sense to have AI build you a personal app that does the task better and more reliably.

▲jsemrau an hour ago | parent [-]

As per 2026, the idea of building a generally great agent fails because it is not just a function of prompt, skills, and memory.

▲woah 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

This sounds incredibly expensive

▲sva_ 2 hours ago | parent [-]

It's just a 27b model finetuned with LoRA?

▲chrisweekly 23 minutes ago | parent [-]

that's a statement (as a rebuttal), not a question, right?

▲sva_ 11 minutes ago | parent [-]

The question was implicit, as I'm not sure what is particularly expensive about that, since you presumably could do it with a single GPU