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▲ da_chicken 6 hours ago

This strikes me as an attempt to renege on employment agreements to allow WFH. I'd bet it's either to do soft layoffs, or get people back in the office to justify real estate.

She's got annual positive reviews 8 years running, and has been with the company for over a decade.

The question that really cuts to the chase is: Why does it require a photograph of the employee's face every 3 minutes in order to determine if they're completing their work? Why does that make any sense at all? What exactly is the employee doing that there are no metrics at all. There's nobody monitoring work loads or task completion? Nobody is checking for accuracy? There are no clients or customers or community members complaining about poor service? How were they able to determine positive reviews for almost a decade before? Why is your management so incompetent, and why is the price of that incompetence your employee's privacy?

▲whstl 5 hours ago | parent | next [-]

> What exactly is the employee doing that there are no metrics at all

Anything that needs managers to actually go and check.

It's not that they trust the employee to work with zero supervision, it's just that most managers and execs don't want to do any kind of work.

The webcam checks are pure projection.

▲sssilver 5 hours ago | parent [-]

Aren't the managers subject to the same 3-minute shots themselves?

▲whaleofatw2022 5 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Not necessarily.

In an odd sort of irony, I know that at least one WITCH in fact gives feedback to the employees about their monitoring directly, versus other 'solutions' where only the manager and/or HR gets access to the system's reporting.

▲whstl 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

They should be, but it still beats working for a living.

▲mannanj 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Absolutely not. Tell me a single company where the same executives are subject to the invasive privacy metrics.

Even like Facebook: the AI training stuff was applied to software engineers and staff but definitely not executives.

▲sssilver 4 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I’ve never been an executive but I’ve worked as an Engineering Manager and a Senior EM of various levels at big shot software engineering companies and all the same rules always applied to me as literally every other employee I managed, directly or indirectly.

▲vkou 3 hours ago | parent [-]

An EM in a software firm is the equivalent of a lead clerk in a grocery.

▲sssilver 3 hours ago | parent [-]

I'm not sure I understand the metaphor, since I've never worked as a lead clerk in a grocery store. Do you mind elaborating?

▲phoghed 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

He’s saying you’re as far from an executive as the janitor is. You don’t even have a personal assistant.

▲sssilver an hour ago | parent [-]

The original comment to which I replied said "most managers and execs", so I thought I'd address the "managers" part of it.

▲vkou 39 minutes ago | parent [-]

On the labor/management divide, I'd put the overwhelming majority of line managers far closer to the labor side.

▲randysalami 28 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I’m sure an EM can extrapolate the role of lead clerk at the grocery store. The EM probably goes to the grocery store and has interacted with the grocery store workers.

▲ 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]
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▲delfinom 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Not sure there's much value in training the AI on the executives playing golf. Lol

▲cowlevel 3 hours ago | parent [-]

Executive is the job most easily replaced by AI, that's why executives think it can replace all jobs - projection.

▲Loughla 3 hours ago | parent [-]

I know it's a joke, but you're not correct. While chatbots are very good at finding interesting data points they're not good at understanding what makes for interesting data points.

Good executives function in the background of the day to day work for most people. Good executives stand out when they set clear directions and can identify what information they need, at the top, to change direction or modify scope or whatever. They don't impact the actual work happening every single day so they just blend in. They impact the work at the entire organization, which will change the day to day, but usually for the better.

The problem is there are very, very, very few good executives. Most that I've interacted with are either narcissistic, lazy, incompetent, or a combination thereof.

In the decades and decades of my professional career, I've worked with one truly good executive leader. He was phenomenal, and guided the organization I was with through some very tough times (layoffs, then covid, then a restructure).

That's one of several hundred.

▲ an hour ago | parent | next [-]
[deleted]
▲cowlevel 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The other several hundred minus one were doing pretty well though, weren't they? Sounds like the average executive can be replaced by AI.

▲DonHopkins 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

> The problem is there are very, very, very few good executives. Most that I've interacted with are either narcissistic, lazy, incompetent, or a combination thereof.

His point is that narcissistic, lazy, incompetent people are easy to replace with AI. In other words, most executives and grant writers. Why are you framing it like you disagree? He is correct.

Also a point about style for "someone who excels at technical writing": an LLM could help you come up with stronger, more evocative wording than very, very, and very. I try to use words like "very" zero times in a row, because there's always a better word that actually adds something more insightful to the description than a generic "very" or three. Using "very" three times in a row is like eating a whole box of unflavored starch packing peanuts.

▲Loughla an hour ago | parent [-]

I guess maybe I disagree in terms of the good executives and wish for a world where that was the norm, and those character traits were sought after by companies instead of narcissism, etc.

For your second paragraph: I'm not looking for a job on here and I'm not writing technically. I'm posting on an Internet forum and using repetition to emphasize a point. Sort of like changing the voice I use for the forum or audience. That sort of thing is very, very common.

▲oenton an hour ago | parent | next [-]

I have to agree with DonHopkins. Your GP comment reads like needless steelmanning or playing devil’s advocate. It’s noise. I much prefer discourse where you say what you mean and mean what you say.

▲DonHopkins an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

You could try technically rewriting your profile to sound less pretentious, and remove the work solicitation if you're not actually looking for a job, or simply write better posts that live up to the self-aggrandizing promises you make in your profile. And when you violently agree with somebody, don't tell them they're incorrect.

▲Exoristos 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Many traditional managers manage with their gut. They distrust metrics because they don't understand the work being done and because they suspect every worker is doing as little as possible. When workers are onsite, these managers gauge how to rank them largely based on their affect toward the manager. When workers are offsite, managers of this type are frustrated and suspicious and adopt naive monitoring measures as a grasp at control.

▲da_chicken 2 hours ago | parent [-]

Like I said: incompetent.

▲thraway3837 an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Yup, the most egregious one is the Morgan and Morgan injury lawyer leeches. Their CEO publicly said "We're going to put a camera up your ass". Yes he actually said this:

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/1IswwPHArJA

▲tripleee 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

unfortunately keyboard and mouse tracking, screen tracking, "what apps are open" etc. are very common for remote work so I can totally see this being looked at in a similar way

▲gamblor956 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

It's to confirm the remote employee is behind the computer. It's not always necessary that they be doing work if there's no work at that particular moment for them to do, but in that case they're still being paid for their time and for some reason these companies don't want their employees doing something else, like going to a baseball game. It's basically no different from an onsite working being at their desk even if they have nothing to do.

It's also the logical corporate response to Younger Millenial remote workers bragging about "working" from paradise instead of actually working. As to why management wants it...this is literally something that management has wanted dating back to the rise of civilization. They have power and want to exercise it even if it's not necessary or efficient.

The logical labor response should be to not work for companies that require remote employees to submit to constant visual supervision.

▲sylos 2 hours ago | parent [-]

I'm not sure employees have the power to not really work at those kinds of places. Logically it should work out like that, but I don't think it does

▲ebbi 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

It feels like the Covid lockdown WFH times where managers mandated everyone has their webcams on. Having been in some of these management conversations, it was purely to ensure no one is just chilling on their bed.

Pretty dumb, as at that time not everyone was had a home office set up, and one can work from their bed perfectly fine, especially when someone wants to put their feet up for a bit during a team meeting.

▲jjav 14 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

> where managers mandated everyone has their webcams on. Having been in some of these management conversations, it was purely to ensure no one is just chilling on their bed.

That's not quite true. If you're working all remote, it is difficult to build a connection with other people, but multiples more difficult if all you ever see is a blank square with a name.

My team is all remote so a make it a point to always be on camera, it does help a bit to know these are real people not just bots with a blank zoom presence. I don't enforce it onto others but it would be nice if everyone showed up as a real person.

▲antonymoose 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

During COVID times I witnessed the most absurd pissing match - our CTO (and founder) was taking calls from his boat at anchor (camera on, palm trees in the back drop) while was working from a coffee shop(!)

The CEO tried publicly dressing down the CTO on a large call because his workspace must be “too distracting to work from.”

▲cowlevel 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The bed thing is about mandatory discomfort, not about how well you can do the work. A lot of office politics is about the need for control.

▲hosh 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

I have sometimes had to work in bed while running a low fever.

I do that because I believe in the mission and work is assessed by outcome.

The flip side too — I learned well before COVID that the Kanban principle of “make work visible” applies to WFH

▲aaron695 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

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