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▲ happytoexplain 10 hours ago

I have thought about this hack before while looking at ingredient lists. I don't know what the best wording would be to establish the spirit of the law, but obviously this should be banned.

▲altairprime 10 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Strawberries (11%) would be sufficient:

> You must mention the quantity (by percentage) of any ingredients that: appear in the name of the product (example: ‘apple pie') [; or] are emphasised on the labelling in words, pictures or graphics (example: ‘with walnuts')[; or] are essential to characterise the food and to distinguish it from other foods[.]

— EU food labeling rules, https://europa.eu/youreurope/business/product-rules-complian...

▲tintor 10 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The solution is to require % by mass number next to each ingredient. This way even if strawberry is first ingredient, the low percentage will make the scam obvious.

▲gruez 9 hours ago | parent | next [-]

That's likely untenable for food companies because it means disclosing their recipe.

▲fwlr an hour ago | parent | next [-]

Sorry if it sucks for their competitive advantage or profit margin or whatever but people are literally going to put this stuff in their bodies to sustain their existence so you have to say what’s in it. If you want to keep your product composition a mystery go make SaaS and put it behind an API.

▲nvme0n1p1 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The same argument could be used against disclosing ingredients altogether.

I'd rather know what I'm eating and not have greedy CEOs pinching their pennies of profit like they're guarding the Krabby Patty formula, because they're scared someone else will learn the generational secret of how to make (checks notes) strawberry jelly. Trust me, the economy will survive if Smuckers tells you how much sugar you're eating.

▲autoexec 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

A company's desire to hide their recipe shouldn't matter over the consumer's desire to know what's in the food they buy and eat.

▲JumpCrisscross 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> it means disclosing their recipe

“Natural flavors.”

I doubt you can’t reverse engineer those fractions from a product and ingredient list anyway.

▲StevenWaterman 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Well if becomes law, not doing it is even more untenable

▲phyzome 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

It works in the EU.

▲hn_throwaway_99 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

As another commenter mentioned, EU rules already require this for "prominent" ingredients (e.g. ingredients that appear in the name of the product, like "Strawberry" jam), but not all ingredients in the list, which seems like the appropriate compromise.

▲thaumasiotes 9 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

That solution is already in place for sugar. The jam that is the focus of the tweet is 60% sugar, and this is prominently printed on the label. What problem do you think you're trying to solve?

▲autoexec 9 hours ago | parent [-]

The product could still be 60% sugar and contain 0% strawberries. It could be still be 60% sugar and contain 1% strawberries.

Sugar content doesn't tell you anything about berry content. It's not unreasonable for someone to want look at the list of ingredients and know if what they are buying is mostly fruit or mostly HFCS. Or even just mostly sugars that didn't come from the berries.

▲thaumasiotes 8 hours ago | parent [-]

The only problem here is that no part of your comment is true.

The strawberries are listed first, before any sugar component. That means they have to be more than 15% of the product.

In fact, the only other ingredients are fruit pectin (the gelling agent) and citric acid (flavor), both of which must be present at very low levels.¹

Strawberries are the entire rest of the ingredients list. And they're also 25% of the sugar content, which is 12g of sugar per serving of which 9g is "added sugar". There's nothing even slightly misleading about this.

¹ Here's a make-your-own-jam page with rules of thumb for pectin in jam: https://missvickie.com/jam-pectin-calculator/ .

The recommendation for strawberry jam is 4 tsp of dry pectin per 4 cups of added sugar. There are 3 tsp in one tablespoon and 16 tablespoons in one cup, for a pectin-to-added-sugar ratio of 1:48. This suggests the jam is under 1% pectin, and the citric acid is even less.

▲autoexec 8 hours ago | parent [-]

> The strawberries are listed first, before any sugar component. That means they have to be more than 15% of the product.

The point of this "article" is that they can break up the sugar ingredients so that it's possible for no single source of sugar to be more than the amount of strawberries, but to still have more sugars than strawberries and yet put strawberries first. I'm not saying that this particular jelly example does that, only that the rules would allow for it.

▲marky1991 10 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

How is this a 'hack'? It's listing ingredients in order of quantity. The nutrition facts already tell you total amount of sugar per serving separately, that's not what the ingredient list is for to begin with. Also, I don't have much sympathy for someone surprised that jelly contains a lot of sugar: A) Have you tasted it B) Do you have any idea what jelly is or why it exists C) Have you ever made it?

Jelly inherently, as a direct consequence of its very reason for existing, contains a lot of sugar, duh.

▲autoexec 9 hours ago | parent | next [-]

> Jelly inherently, as a direct consequence of its very reason for existing, contains a lot of sugar, duh.

If a typical jelly recipe calls for pounds of fruit and a few cups of sugar wouldn't be normal to expect fruit to be the first ingredient? If a company is using more added sugars than fruit that should be obvious without having to look at the nutrition facts

▲SAI_Peregrinus 8 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Typical jelly & jamrecipes call for close to 1:1 fruit to sugar. E.g. ¹Ball mason jars strawberry jam recipe calls for 7 cups sugar to 5 cups strawberries. Martha Stewart calls for 3/4 cup sugar for every cup of juice² in making jelly. The Joy of Cooking (44th printing 1988)notes that "Store-bought jellies, according to law, must have at least 45% fruit and 55% sugar". Etc.

¹https://www.ballmasonjars.com/blog?cid=classic-strawberry-ja...

²https://www.marthastewart.com/1127955/basic-jelly-recipe

³ ISBN 0-02-604570-2, Joy of Cooking, Irma S. Rombauer, Marion Rombauer & Becker, page 832

▲ragall an hour ago | parent [-]

You can make jam with a lot less sugar. I make my own strawberry confiture at home and use about 5% sugar, plus pectine and sweet lemon juice.

▲thaumasiotes 9 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

For the product in question, they aren't using more added sugars than fruit.

As you can read on the label:

    Ingredients: Strawberries, High Fructose Corn syrup, Corn syrup, Sugar, Fruit Pectin, Citric Acid.

    Serving Size              20g

    Total Sugars              12g
       Total Added Sugars      9g
Each tablespoon of jam contains 10-11 grams of fruit and 9-10 grams of added sugar. The jam is 60% sugar overall because there is sugar in the fruit too.

And that's weighted by share of the output. If you're measuring the input, this recipe is going to take a lot more "fruit" than "sugar", because part of making jam is boiling away a bunch of the water that occurs in fruit, whereas all of the added sugar is retained. (Corn syrup, however, seems to be about 2/3 water, which will make that comparison look worse.)

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▲cryptonector 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The hack is to use several different ingredients of the same type where they would have used just one, and doing it just so they can have the ingredient they want listed first as first.

▲happytoexplain 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Because the intent is to mislead while staying within the letter of the rules. I don't think it's complicated.

▲tintor 10 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

If it is done with intent to mislead consumers, then it is a hack.

▲owlbite 10 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Presumably you could just require % amounts to be specified (and make sure to pick volume vs weight in some fashion that avoids gaming).