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▲ sunir 21 hours ago

People still play chess and go and StarCraft. People do what people want to do. It's not clear whether this will reduce the number of working mathematicians or increase it. There will a lot to learn from the machine proofs that will open up new frontiers as well.

So, it's like the story, "We'll see."

There has been a shocking but not altogether surprising development, and all reactions are valid.

▲omoikane 20 hours ago | parent | next [-]

> People still play chess and go and StarCraft

Those are activities where repeating the same experience yourself is still enjoyable, kind of like you might eat today even though you already ate yesterday.

Finding mathematical proofs is probably more like seeing the ending to a mystery novel. Once the ending has been spoiled for you, it's really hard for you to enjoy it the same way, and it might be more fun to move on to a different mystery.

▲jryle70 19 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Different people have different feeling and motivation and reasons for doing things. No doubt there are people thinking like you, but it's to early to tell how it will be for the majority.

> People still play chess and go and StarCraft

Because most people still find them enjoyable. You can't say those are less enjoyable than math. There is no universal scale for enjoyment.

> kind of like you might eat today even though you already ate yesterday

You'd die if you stop eating after yesterday's meals. That's survival.

▲tobbe2064 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

No, people enjoy methematics for the inner journey and for the depth it offers that is orthogonal to everythibg in existance. Learning math is awesome, furthering the field is just paying your dues

▲namrog84 14 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Some people enjoy rewatching or rereading books and others dont. Careers change and maybe we need a different type of mathematicians that does enjoy this work more than historical work?

▲ur-whale 17 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> is probably more like seeing the ending to a mystery novel

lots of people enjoy knowing the end of the story as they start a book, and it does not prevent them from enjoying the book in the slightest.

Something that always comes as a great surprise to those who don't.

▲vadansky 17 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> is probably more like seeing the ending to a mystery novel

So math should switch to a Columbo methodology?

▲slopinthebag 17 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

some people eat the same bland things every day and others spend a considerable amount of time learning and preparing new recipes.

▲lf88 20 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Chess and StarCraft are games. For many other intellectual activities, part of the satisfaction comes from contributing something meaningful to a collective effort. If a machine can do that orders of magnitude faster, for many people these activities become effectively pointless.

▲abnry 19 hours ago | parent | next [-]

The funny thing about people comparing mathematical research in the days of LLMs to playing chess in the days of Stockfish is that it identifies the competitive nature, and hence status seeking attitude, of the mathematical research community. Chess is, of course, a competitive game with a winner and a loser. You "win" mathematical research by solving a longstanding unsolved problem.

There is this idea of advancing human knowledge and adding to the record of what people know in mathematical research that breaks the analogy down, somewhat. But most people aren't Perelman. They would happily take the million dollar prize. And it is out of the question to do anything other than put your name on the published paper.

▲david-gpu an hour ago | parent | next [-]

That is what I am gathering, too. I've been watching this from the sidelines, really confused by all the people moaning endlessly about how this revolution is somehow damaging to the community of mathematicians, which makes no sense to me no matter how many times I read their arguments.

But realizing that the primary driver was never actually proving the conjectures, nor understanding the proofs, sheds light into the issue. Many are not satisfied with the prospect of curating and preserving an ever growing collection of discoveries; what they wanted is being the discoverers themselves.

Which to me is mind boggling, because that is not what they have been saying aloud all along. Maybe it's my autism speaking, but I really thought they cared about the resulting knowledge rather than being recognized by their peers. How naïve of me to think that they were above that.

Meanwhile, people who simply enjoy having a tool that facilitates solving problems, because having a solution is their true goal rather than an excuse to obtain recognition or validation, are excited to use this new wonder.

▲ziiinq 15 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

[dead]

▲elicash 20 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

This comment reminds me of the "run for fun" guy in Back to the Future Part III.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ouCVJIpSmEE

(This isn't to say I disagree with you.)

▲idiotsecant 8 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Pro tip: life is pointless. So the machines are better at thinking about certain classes of things. So what? Either you enjoy thinking or you don't. Deciding whether you enjoy it or not based on a global scorecard is silly. Surely there are aliens out there somewhere that already figured out any given problem. Does that make finding the solution yourself any less satisfying?

I think what people actually want when they say this is to be the hero. They want the admiration. Which is fine, but at least he honest.

▲david-gpu an hour ago | parent [-]

Yes! If their true goal was expanding the field, they would be excited. But if, instead, they saw this as some sort of a race to be the first to prove a conjecture, then their frustration is understandable. But it would be good if they had been honest about it from the get go; possibly they did not even realize it themselves.

I bet lots of them, who are in it for the love of the game, are truly excited by what is going on.

▲vouaobrasil 19 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> People still play chess and go and StarCraft. People do what people want to do.

Poor analogy. Because math is one of those job-hobby type hybrids where the job may be enjoyable but you still need the academic infrastructure to do it on a modern level, both because you need funding and you need others to motivate you to keep to a certain standard.

Job-hobby hybrids like this are not the same as running and Starcraft where you can do it by yourself and still reap a lot of benefit from it in the same way. Hobbyists might still do math but if it were just up to the hobbyists, we wouldn't have the level of discovery we have today.

▲idiotsecant 8 hours ago | parent [-]

I think the whole point is that we are no longer at the top of the totem pole, cognition-wise. At least not in certain areas. Better get used to your goals being self-driven. If your sense of self relies on being the best you've got a problem.

▲dist-epoch 21 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> People still play chess and go and StarCraft

but very few get paid to do that

▲esafak 7 hours ago | parent [-]

And now it's everybody else's turn!

At least starving artists are safe!

▲xanderlewis 20 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Have you not already heard others make this analogy a million times by now? It seems like I read it multiple times a day at this point.

Mathematics can be enjoyed recreationally as a puzzle like any other, but it isn’t just an arbitrary puzzle. It’s a science where one discovers truth and seeks an understanding of, and dreams up, new phenomena. It’s not chess, or go, or StarCraft. There’s no fixed rule set and the goal isn’t to ‘win’ or beat your opponents.

Let’s stop repeating this nonsense as if it’s a profound observation.

▲sunir 16 hours ago | parent [-]

I didn't say that. I just pointed out that computers are better at these mental activities than humans, and humans still do them. More in fact.

▲righthand 19 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

All the “it’s not clear if there will be fewer jobs in the future” rhetoric is frankly mind boggling. It’s pretty clear the goal of LLMs in a capital sense is to reduce operational budgets as much as possible. If it doesn’t happen naturally it will happen by execs forcing that decision.

▲sunir 16 hours ago | parent [-]

Academic mathematics isn't an operational institution.

Though its funding does move with the number of major projects academia is tasked with that rely on mathematics to advance, it's a fundamental knowledge area that has no operational requirements to exist.