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Garlef 2 hours ago

Sure.

But no one is claiming that there will only be 4h-storage

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PaulHoule 2 hours ago | parent [-]

I don't see a lot of realistic talk about what the actual storage requirements are. You have to be concerned about:

(1) ordinary diurnal variation (overnight, lets say 12 hours)

(2) extremely unfavorable weather (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunkelflaute)

(3) annual variation (you might get 3x the sunlight in summer than winter? do you build 180 days of storage or do you overbuild solar systems 3x and get Casey Handmer to dream up something useful to do with that excess energy that doesn't have a stupendous capital cost?)

The "have a natural gas backup plan" is worse than people think for a lot of reasons, in terms of the laws of political science and economics you're going to find that that tail winds up wagging the dog, the whole market will get designed around the needs of those turbine owners, it's going to cost the same if they are running turbines for 5 minutes a year or 20 days a year, and ultimately you're never going to get rid of it. If you really plan to run the system 5 minutes a year what are the odds it will really work when you need it? You have to not just support the turbines you hardly ever use, pipelines you hardly ever use, drilling and storage operations for gas, etc.

	▲	tcfhgj 16 minutes ago \| parent \| next [-]
		> (3) annual variation (you might get 3x the sunlight in summer than winter? do you build 180 days of storage or do you overbuild solar systems 3x and get Casey Handmer to dream up something useful to do with that excess energy that doesn't have a stupendous capital cost?) what about the variation regarding winds?
	▲	SoftTalker an hour ago \| parent \| prev [-]
		Yeah I think it really only works well in the central latitudes. The American South, the tropics and equatorial regions, Southern Europe, etc. that get a lot of high-angle sunlight year-round. Otherwise you need to deal with long distance power transmission across many political jurisdictions, or local generation for night or other low-solar times. To my mind, nuclear base load with solar and batteries used for things like charging cars or demand-shifting probably makes more sense. It's really a shame that we mostly withdrew from building nuclear plants for the past three or four decades; instead we have reached the point where we have to re-learn how or recreate the tooling needed to build them and they are still too damn expensive.