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▲ tecleandor 5 hours ago

Junior software engineers not being hired is not the same as not needing them. Now I have to fight senior employees that do worse things than junior employees (and produce worse software than two years ago), because they delegate their work to the AI without checking or reviewing anything at all, or questioning the AI architecture "decisions", and we have more incidents than ever...

▲Twirrim 4 hours ago | parent | next [-]

It's really depressing watching brilliant software developers and engineers producing the worst, unmaintainable code imaginable, and being okay with shipping it because it's passing the test suite. Assuming the test suite is any good anyway (because holy crap, the nonsensical tests AI writes...)

Your code used to be a masterpiece, so well crafted it's easy for AI to tweak and modify because you've got everything so logically organised and scoped... and now this is what you're producing? Hard to debug monstrosities that only an LLM can realistically bolt new features or tweaks onto, because it can do the kinds of refactoring necessary each time.

We use to talk about the fact that code should be readable because you spend more time reading it than writing it, but I think that misses the key part that readable code is also typically easier to debug. If you can read and understand the code, you can follow the logic when things are wrong in production, and you can more easily reason about the emergent properties of interactions between the complex systems that are involved.

▲NichoPaolucci 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Your code used to be a masterpiece? Ours was more… Amazon basics wall art.

I jest, while in agreement with this whole comment. We used to care about fostering informed developers and maintaining high standards and good quality software.

I literally compared it to being an expert woodworker. Beautiful ornate decoration. Rich, sturdy mahogany, one of a kind, beveled edges and a fantastic stained hardwood.

Now it’s the 30$ Ikea cardboard stuff.

My biggest question is how many tables does the world need, and how many woodworkers will be required to build + maintain those table factories.

▲motbus3 2 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

Certainly mostly what I did wasn't great but throughout 20+ years I think at some point I found a balance between "doing this shit because someone f'cking overpromised" and "I am doing this because I want a brain teezer". But it is not like I always do the same. I understood that there are times to do things in one way and times to do in another way.

I think with AI, most people are getting lazy to do it properly.

The other day, I deleted 65K LOC that were dead code or stupid explanations over very obvious code from a vibe coded repository which had 95K LOC (but should have 10k imo)

▲thaumasiotes 10 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

It's getting off topic, but I think a major reason for $30 cardboard tables is the strange modern idea that furniture isn't part of the house.

If you buy a house or rent an apartment in most of the US, any furniture will be stripped out, even if the only thing you plan to do with it afterwards is throw it away. Then the new tenant provides their own furniture, which they either moved from elsewhere at great expense or had to purchase on the spot. No part of this makes any sense. We don't strip countertops when selling a house even if they're unfashionable, we don't replace white goods, but somehow it's expected for the furniture.

If you buy a house in Hawaii, it's understood that you're buying the furniture that's already in the house. I assume the reason is that it's more difficult to obtain new furniture in Hawaii.

If you rent an apartment in China, it will come with furniture, because how else are you supposed to live in it? And if you're not happy with the furniture it's shown with, you negotiate with the landlord for the furniture you need.

If Americans sold their furniture when they moved instead of throwing it away, you'd see everyone using much higher-quality furniture. It would have come with their house. And providing it to houses that didn't have it yet would be an investment, just like the countertops.

▲kevinsync 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I always like to say that LLM-produced test suites aren't for testing software correctness or validity, they're for testing to make sure that stuff that was previously in place stays unchanged. This, of course, is six-in-one-hand-half-a-dozen-in-the-other since the agent will often just update tests to match the updates it just made, but I do find value in providing some kind of continuity to a codebase that's being modified at breakneck pace. YMMV

▲motbus3 a few seconds ago | parent | next [-]

Nice point. But I still have way too many vibe coded tests that passes and break in production despite they should have failed but Claude fixed the test by mocking the test to pass. I am not kidding.

▲globular-toast 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Yep. The only reason for automated testing is to enable future refactoring, which might be needed for future development. If we only wrote software once, we wouldn't need automated tests. You'd just write the software, test manually as you go, then ship it when you're happy. Ideally not all future development would even need any refactors. A good software architecture would allow one to add features simply by adding more modules of code. But, of course, we don't know what the perfect software architecture is from the start, so we need to assume someone will one day need to refactor.

▲samtechie an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I don't know which companies you work for. Where is the code a masterpiece? In all my work, I have yet to see this elegant code. Before AI, we had to deal with human slop. Byzantine, spaghetti messes. I haven't been lucky. I once worked with code that made me want to pull my hair out. I look at LLM-generated code, and it's mostly better than any code I have worked on. But maybe it's just me.

▲0x20cowboy 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I’ve seen people say this kind of code was written, but I’ve never seen this kind of code anywhere I have ever worked.

Not saying it doesn’t exist, just saying this sounds dangerously close to a boomer talking about the 1950s

▲zimpenfish an hour ago | parent [-]

> I’ve seen people say this kind of code was written, but I’ve never seen this kind of code anywhere I have ever worked.

Luckier than me. I've worked at a few places where the code was simultaneously brilliantly written[0] and also unmaintainable nonsense that caused endless problems. One place had its own object model and ORM that absolutely no-one currently at the place understood and literally every bug filed (whilst I was there) could be traced back to that code.

(Probably just a coincidence that most of those places where Perl shops but I've seen it with Go too...)

[0] In terms of "cleverness", not in terms of "maintainability" or "readability".

▲rafaelmn 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

> Your code used to be a masterpiece

Do you even see anything underneath that rose tint ?

▲rbtprograms 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

this is so accurate it hurts. the amount of my coworkers who just outright have handed any and all thinking over to the computer is staggering. its not just senior either, plenty of devs at the lead and staff level are producing complete garbage that has to be rolled back within an hour of deploy because it is extremely broken, no one verified, and it passed automated checks.

there are several features over the last few months that were obviously made and deployed and no one even launched the dev server and tried a single thing to verify if it was right. just "pull my ticket, do my ticket, push my ticket. i am a developer."

▲golly_ned 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Managers can be even worse. I’ve seen an entire roadmap mostly AI generated. Director+ across the company approving based on it having the right keywords, without nuance or detail.

I’ve seen monthly and quarterly executing results AI generated with plainly wrong factual information.

▲andrekandre 2 hours ago | parent [-]

same here, i call it aids (ai delusion sickness) and some companies i've seen have it bad

▲eli_gottlieb 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> just "pull my ticket, do my ticket, push my ticket. i am a developer."

IME a lot of people are now subject to output-rate expectations that preclude doing much else, honestly.

▲advael an hour ago | parent [-]

In general, it's bizarre that people look at problems this systemic and conclude that they are primarily a failing happening at the level of individual contributors. This organizational rot didn't even start with LLMs, though it's certainly been accelerated by them

▲globular-toast 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Yeah, it's not actually really about coding, it's about thinking. Anyone with any software experience knows the job is 90% thinking and 10% typing. At first I thought AI agents were just a faster keyboard, but no, they think for you too. For many people it's going to be very difficult to force themselves to think when they have a magic thinking machine that makes it look they thought it through.