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▲ fwlr 5 hours ago

I hope Terry has somewhere private where he can safely express his anger at how poorly math has been treated by these AI corps. I understand that as a recently pro-AI public figure he is limited to ambivalence, so I understand him adding caveats like “maybe math 2.0 has a place for AI”, but it can’t feel good to say stuff like that just days after OpenAI so drastically salted the earth.

▲SuperV1234 5 hours ago | parent | next [-]

> how poorly math has been treated by these AI corps

Yes, what a terrible thing to advance the field significantly and release the results publicly for everyone. Truly despicable.

▲fwlr 5 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Well, that’s the thing, isn’t it? They somehow invented a way of solving an open problem without advancing the field. That’s something that mathematicians had never even thought was possible. And while the mathematicians were beginning the great conversation to re-examine their fundamental understanding of the pursuit of math in light of this new phenomenon, OpenAI decided they would do it again 372 more times.

▲drstewart 4 hours ago | parent [-]

>They somehow invented a way of solving an open problem without advancing the field.

And nothing stops mathematicians from solving it in a way that does advance the field. Claude's existence doesn't change that.

▲piker 4 hours ago | parent [-]

Such a naive take. The funding for solving these problems went to zero over night.

▲drstewart 4 hours ago | parent [-]

Hence the funding was never for "advancing the understanding", but the problems themselves.

▲xanderlewis 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

The real value is in advancing the understanding but very few outside academia understand this (it’s counterintuitive, which is fair enough as it’s somewhat unique to mathematics as a subject), so if you want to get funding you frame it as being for solving the problems.

Now that you can solve without understanding this setup is broken. Either the sources of funding will finally have to learn the difference and the value of the latter, or mathematics research ends.

▲IanCal 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

That's not quite right, assuming everything said so far is just flat true.

The funding can have been for advancing the understanding, by using a more measurable proxy and reasonable target that closely aligned with advancing understanding.

Perhaps another phrasing might be "we are paying people to go through the process of solving these problems" rather than "we are paying people for solutions". I might set a random task for my kids while on a hike to find X things, not because I want to find ten different leaves but the process of doing it means exploring and investigating in a certain kind of way a certain kind of area. If some sets up a leaf selling stand, they have advanced the field of "finding leaves" and kids can now very very easily get ten different leaves.

Now leaves here are frivolous and not useful. That example works better looking at, say, homework - clearly I don't care about having a list of words spelled correctly and I don't need the answer to 5x7, nor do we need more book reports on The Great Gatsby. We're doing them to teach, it's very explicitly about the result.

Research level maths however is a bit of both. The answers to some of these things are genuinely useful. Having the answer may be better than not having it. But having a lot of people working on solving it has other useful and beneficial outcomes.

We have structured large scale systems of huge numbers of people and institutes around how this works, and what top mathematicians are telling us is that open problems (particularly at new researcher level) are a key part of this process and are hard to find. Academia changes incredibly fucking slowly, just glacially slowly. Some aspects (most?) are barely changed across hundreds of years. And across an incredibly short space of time (less time than one paper can take to go from fully finished to actually published) we have gone from "this machine can solve school level work" to "this machine is solving major research level maths problems". The existing system will not work, the machines will not get dumber or slower, and some of the impacts are things you cannot undo.

▲fwlr 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Wouldn’t be the first time someone kept the bean counters happy while also generating some positive externalities! Of course, now with AI we might finally be able to realise maximum efficiency, where only the bean counters are happy and there’s no other positives.

▲piker 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

No, that's demonstrably untrue given how little direct value is given to most of these results.

▲ssfdg 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

What a disingenuous, willfully ignorant take. None of these AI companies have been acting in good faith or in any way other than grotesque self-aggrandizement to the expense of everyone else.

▲gyosko 4 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Totally agree. They are doing in it ONLY because they think it's the best way to be more valuable. They don't give a F about anything else.

▲fsflover 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

How does this change the fact that they shared the proofs with the community and allowed everyone to verify or reject them?

▲sebzim4500 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

So what? If someone releases something good then that's good, doesn't matter what their motivations are.

▲aaron695 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

[dead]

▲Razengan 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

"Oh no — A smart person doesn't hold my view — He must be faking it!"

▲ 3 hours ago | parent [-]
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