Remix.run Logo
▲ ashleyn 5 hours ago

If you were wondering the same thing I am - it's not about skills loss, quality, and less about money spent. It's more about frontier AI shops dogfooding their own models.

▲nateglims 4 hours ago | parent | next [-]

If it’s anything like AWS there’s hundreds of people making bespoke software factory setups, enhanced interfaces for ai tools, spinning up 10 parallel review agents with the best model available, etc because the budget is basically unlimited.

▲devin 7 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

The other part that is kind of comical is that the software factories keep growing quality gates and automated tasks that need to run for every commit, PR, deploy, etc. Then someone goes "oh, but now it's slowing us down", so a new thing gets added which decides when it's appropriate to run the gate, and on and on endlessly until it's a gigantic soup of actions that are running which provide negligible, and more frequently negative value over the software lifecycle. People are making big expensive messes of agents and acting like it's galaxy brain stuff.

▲xpct an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I find it a bit comical. AI tools are so easy to pick up, and it's unlikely you've pushed some highly critical features which couldn't have waited for a few months.

▲ 29 minutes ago | parent [-]
[deleted]
▲seanmcdirmid 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Token maxing really is a thing if your token budget is unconstrained.

▲claysmithr 22 minutes ago | parent [-]

No, because not all work is productive

▲gradus_ad an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Tokenmaxxing is just the new pr-maxxing. Proxies truly are the root of all evil.

▲UltraSane 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

That sounds both very fun and very stressful.

▲wffurr 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Meanwhile https://www.reddit.com/r/GeminiAI/comments/1wh0qxq/google_fi...

▲coef2 4 hours ago | parent | next [-]

This made me laugh https://www.reddit.com/r/GeminiAI/comments/1wh0qxq/comment/p...

▲casta 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Talking to my friends working there, they said they were surprised when that happened and they didn't find Claude quality to be that much better than Gemini when using agy. So maybe after all the issue is not mainly the model, but harness and custom tooling.

▲kelvinjps10 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

They give claude usage on antigravity and aren't them a investor on antrhopic?

▲nwhnwh 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

What in the world is happening?

▲CamperBob2 3 hours ago | parent [-]

Ask Claude

▲nwhnwh 3 hours ago | parent [-]

We broke up, ask it yourself.

▲actionfromafar 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Life uhhh... finds a way.

▲BearOso an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I dunno, it could be about money, too. $100,000 budget per employee, per month. Why were they willing to spend that much on AI usage? I hope said employees also make that much in salary.

▲iririririr an hour ago | parent [-]

it's circular revenue. they can claim tokenmaxing on one side, and huge revenues on the other.

▲486sx33 38 minutes ago | parent [-]

[dead]

▲mawadev 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I think if you talk to LLMs and give feedback or openly say what works and what doesn't, you are essentially solving a captcha and produce accurate training data, while you pay for the token spend. I'd be a bit nervous with this lol.

Just one unsanitized input and you leak info. Or one hidden character and code may or may not belong to you anymore. Its very odd on many levels

▲user43928 3 hours ago | parent [-]

Accurate training data?

At best you produce some noisy signals that are going to have a tiny impact if even that.

And that's on a personal plan where you didn't opt out of sharing usage data.

Business plans offer zero data retention. This is a non-issue.

▲plasticchris 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

These are companies famous for following the rules when it comes to handling other people’s data and IP after all, totally a non-issue and they would never violate contract law

▲user43928 3 hours ago | parent [-]

It would be a low quality training set that you theorize is a goldmine and worth illegally stealing from your customers.

I think this data is likely worthless compared to curated RL tasks.

▲ an hour ago | parent | next [-]
[deleted]
▲ 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]
[deleted]
▲ 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]
[deleted]
▲glerk 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Dogfooding their own model ls and not letting their competitors use their data to train their.

▲ActorNightly 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I wonder why they allow it at all.

Like its a no brainer to force your employees to use your own models, then RL train them to be better.

▲p1necone 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Only if all you care about is developing models. I assume the rest of the business would rather just use whatever's best in class regardless of who made it, so I'm sure it's not that straightforward of a decision.

▲ 22 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]
[deleted]
▲InsideOutSanta 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Or let them use Claude, track everything, and use that data to train your own models.

▲user43928 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

If you assume that noisy general usage data enables good RL, particularly compared to curated RL training sets.

I am not convinced that's the case.

▲tinza123 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Microsoft?

▲ihuman 4 hours ago | parent [-]

Copilot

▲NewJazz 4 hours ago | parent [-]

That's not a model.

▲Zambyte 5 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

They had phi for a while. Interesting that they haven't really continued with anything like that.

▲ihuman 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

True, but its not pure OpenAI GPT. If the point is dogfooding, then they'd use Copilot instead of using OpenAI's models directly

▲98codes 4 hours ago | parent [-]

They do.

▲therein 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

If you ask Microsoft, it is a lifestyle.

▲trueno 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

if AI never happened there's like zero chance I would've ever used or noticed the usage of the word "dogfooding" lmao i hate this timeline

▲andybak 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

That's odd. I've been aware of that word for decades.

▲Terr_ 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Ditto, it's been around for a decade or three, especially if we include longer phrase "eating your own dogfood" and not just the verbification.

▲andybak 3 hours ago | parent [-]

I can't be sure but I vaguely recall it being associated with the big Microsoft antitrust court case? Along with the delightful phrase "knifing the baby"

▲ 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]
[deleted]
▲fragmede 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Same as "load-bearing", but I guess that depends on everyone's non/pre-swe background.

▲andybak 2 hours ago | parent [-]

Or house flipping TV shows

▲compiler-guy 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Wikipedia has the introduction of the term "dogfood" to the corporate world as a Microsoft internal memo....

... in 1988.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eating_your_own_dog_food

▲vjvjvjvjghv 2 hours ago | parent [-]

MS was famous for that. Seems since around .NET they have forgotten about it. Delivering and promoting toolkits to devs they don't use themselves.