Surely the UK can also pull this off given how quick faster payments is. I'm always surprised at how we just stuck with Visa

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criddell 6 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I think the problem is that merchants hate the card networks and consumers generally like them and there are a lot more consumers than merchants. If you are a politician, which block of voters are you going to side with?

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5 hours ago | parent | next [-]

[deleted]

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carlosjobim 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Merchants don't hate the card networks. That's a minority in my experience, who are penny wise and pound foolish.

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sandworm101 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

They like the card networks because they are lured by point schemes, effectively money charged to the merchants and then shared back to cardholders. Consumers would flip in a heartbeat if shops were allowed to offer discounts to those not using credit cards.

I used to by all my PC parts from a shop that had a 5% discount for cash purchases. It was the sort of shop that was just a counter with all the merch hidden in the back. I don't know how they kept the CC companies from knowing but maybe 40% of their business was cash purchases (circa 2019).

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steveklabnik 5 hours ago | parent | next [-]

> Consumers would flip in a heartbeat if shops were allowed to offer discounts to those not using credit cards.

We must be very different consumers.

Also, many places already do effectively this, they charge a surcharge for using a card.

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graemep 5 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Not in the UK, or the EU, as its actually illegal (as in against the law, as well as the contract with the provider).

	▲	steveklabnik 5 hours ago \| parent [-]
		> as well as the contract with the provider It used to be here in the US, but there was enough violations that they stopped putting it in the terms. But, looking into this, it looks like some states have made it illegal. I'm curious how well that's enforced.

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ImPostingOnHN 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Yeah, there are folks who use more card benefits than they pay in annual fees, to whom this might not be appealing.

For those on the other side of the balance, maybe it would be.

Either way, I can't imagine many shops doing it, even if the economics makes sense. They'd rather the immediate and direct pad to the bottom line.

	▲	steveklabnik 5 hours ago \| parent [-]
		It's the same reason that I don't use bitcoin for large purchases: I want the ability to have disputes handled if and when something goes awry. With cash, I have no recourse.

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jtbayly 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

CC companies allow this surcharge/discount for CC/cash now. Have for several years. I think it was caused by a class action suit.

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pasc1878 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

It is the difference between Credit and Debit cards.

I could see Debit Cards being replaced by direct transfers.

The issue is what happens if who you pay too does not provide the srvice or just runs off with the money.

Under UK Law the customer can deal with the Credit Card issuer and get their money back with a direct payment it is npot always possible.

For debit cards I think the issue will refund if fraudelent but might take a battle. With direct payments the customer has a much harder job.

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graemep 5 hours ago | parent [-]

Yes, and it exists - its called "pay by bank".

its cheaper but customers lose protection for doing it, and as its illegal (yes, against the law) to offer them a discount for using debit cards, cash, or direct payments they have no reason to.

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pasc1878 4 hours ago | parent [-]

Yes I know pay by bank – I have used that to pay my plumber. In effect it replaces paying by cheque.

But the problem is that if you use it to pay for a service and do not get the service you can only claim off who you paid and that requires taking them to court while Credit Cards just require phoning up the card provider. Debit cards are between the two.

	▲	graemep 2 hours ago \| parent [-]
		Exactly. If it is an outright fraud you do have some protection because of the push fraud rules, but not if its bad products etc. I have not actually used it. I have paid some people (mechanic, gardener) with a bank transfer which works well thanks to faster payments being near instant.

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ssddanbrown 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

I've noticed growing use of similar options in the UK already, like Payit and truelayer (often shown in checkout via "Pay by bank"). Ebay and Whetherspoons are examples of places providing these options.

	▲	cortic 2 hours ago \| parent [-]
		The issue is in the UK we passed a law that "banned credit card charges", but what it actually did was ban discounts for alternate payment methods, meaning everyone has to pay the credit card fees, even if you pay cash. (this was the effect, you can still offer discounts, but the base CC fee legally needs to be baked in first.) This will mean, its harder for competing payment services to function. And its easier for the big credit card companies to up the % they charge without the public noticing, or blaming them directly. It was fascinating watching the media coverage, twisting themselves in knots to miss these points while cheering how we were 'standing up to the big cc companies', it was actually quite cringe-worthy at times.