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▲ slg 10 hours ago

What is the actual benefit here? If we believe the doctor's oversight is required, the AI introduces a dangerous potential for error. If we don't think a doctor's oversight is required, the medication shouldn't require a prescription in the first place. What positive value does the AI actually add that isn't circumventing a legal requirement that we decided to put in place?

▲toddmorey 9 hours ago | parent | next [-]

AI is already being used to guide care outcomes and overrule doctors via “utilization management”.

I am a big believer in AI for drug discovery. But AI applied to patient care will never be used to benefit the patient or increase quality of care.

Cost reductions will be absorbed for profits. The medical industry has already aggressively implemented AI automation (imaging, automated note taking, etc) and in that period, costs have only increased.

▲jjice 41 minutes ago | parent [-]

I generally agree with you, but one thing I _hope_ AI can lead to is me being able to actually consult something resembling a medical professional. It's so difficult to get time with my doctor, and when I do, I get swept out the door ASAP.

My hour long yearly physical takes 15 minutes and my miscellaneous questions get brushed off. I have some sort of eczema on my hand and he told me to use lotion. After telling him I do, he said to keep doing it. It had been six months then and now 18 months. Problem is still there.

Just today I finally found a dermatologist. Soonest appointment I could get from the ones I called is May of 2027.

At a certain point, I hope LLMs can provide at least basic medical help reliably because I can't get the opportunity to ask a doctor to begin with.

▲hattmall 12 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

Have you tried telehealth? Obviously some stuff needs in person but I've been reasonably pleased, never felt rushed and the doctors just seem to generally have a far more pleasant demeanor. Dermatology is also one of the areas where it works really well.

That being said, have you tried more than just basic lotion? Butenafine clears a lot of fungal issues. High content zinc oxide diaper paste is also very useful. There's a brand from Dollar Tree that's very popular but triple paste is another option. The heavy zinc oxide coating cures a wide array of skin issues.

Wash your hands with nizoral then moisturizer with something like Okeefes or just the ZO cream.

▲cevn 31 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

Fwiw my son has some eczema (red rash) and using hydrocortisone 2.5% 2x a day for no longer than 2 weeks (longer than that can cause dangerous thinning of the skin or something) seems to be helping a lot.

▲fhn 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

In certain states, scheduling an appointment to see a doctor is >6 months out. If AI is able to take in your complaints, perhaps order some tests, triage and pass you to a doctor, that's a plus. Depending on the severity, not everybody needs to see a doctor. I appreciate what doctors do but most people can self-diagnose pretty well now but they are not able to get themselves tested which sucks. I'm happy to take my health into my own hands.

▲socializer 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I think we came up with this dubious category of things that supposedly require oversight, but only to a minimal extent. Viagra, contraceptives, eyeglasses. You can already get these with near-zero diligence if you take the telehealth route, but I guess there's still someone who feels it would be a pressing societal issue if you took matters into your own hands and ordered the wrong kind of eyeglasses.

So here, AI isn't doing anything clever, it's just asking "are you sure you don't have a heart condition" and "are you sure you're not a crazy person". We don't really need LLMs for that, but if it's a catalyst for liberalization, fine.

▲slg 9 hours ago | parent | next [-]

>So here, AI isn't doing anything clever, it's just asking "are you sure you don't have a heart condition" and "are you sure you're not a crazy person".

So are we just admitting that the "AI" here is the equivalent of a dialog box and this same change could have been enacted at any point in the last half century?

>We don't really need LLMs for that, but if it's a catalyst for liberalization, fine.

Is this liberalization or is it just further entrenching the bureaucracy that this change implies is already broken?

This whole thing just feels like a Chesterton's fence scenario in which we knock down the fence and then immediately rebuild it, only a few inches shorter and with weaker materials this time. I just don't see how that's any sort of victory for progress.

▲ an hour ago | parent [-]
[deleted]
▲toddmorey 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Yes and if you need a controlled prescription, it’s super painful. Can’t be transferred to another pharmacy, etc. extremely difficult to fill reliably.

And the medications that are controlled vs uncontrolled (at least here in Texas) seem completely random.

▲dfxm12 an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

You call this a potential catalyst for liberalization, but can you qualify this a bit with the context that you will have to pay an additional $5/mo subscription and upload your face along with a bunch of PII to who-knows-who?

It sounds like a catalyst for more red tape, more creepy Internet tracking, higher drug costs and more impossible to break subscriptions, all to help some health care companies' bottom lines. I don't consider this fine.

▲w10-1 an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The service is mainly in the image analysis to characterize the type of acne, which is reviewed by a doctor (100% initially, then 10%).

▲matt_heimer 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

People can be uneducated about medication, acetaminophen overdose is a leading cause of acute liver failure in the United States. A little bit of a barrier and forced information about the concern might not be a bad thing but it doesn't require a doctor. A lot of medication probably falls in the same category but is on the other side of the prescription fence.

And doctors aren't infallible, AI (and rule based systems) can act as an extra safeguard for them as long as they don't blindly trust it.

▲abirch 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The removing a prescription is a federal law, something that Utah can't overrule. Unfortunately some prescriptions are good for some medication and not great for others.

▲simianwords 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

This is such a low quality comment that I wonder whether people even know how AI is used!

I see this same fallacy repeated all the time when we speak about AI.

"I want AI to be 100% accurate and not 99.999%"

"If AI makes even one mistake, why would I even use it?"

"What's the point of using AI if I have to verify it anyway?"

Here's how it could work.

You could always have a CI sort of thing for doctors prescriptions where you run the prescription through AI and it can flag any potential error to the doctor.

The LLM can be accurate enough that it only flags things when necessary

▲AlotOfReading 7 hours ago | parent | next [-]

    You could always have a CI sort of thing for doctors prescriptions where you run the prescription through AI and it can flag any potential error to the doctor.
Yes, and we call this CI system a "pharmacy". It might even employ some human experts to review DDI warnings and suggest alternatives to the prescribing physician.
▲simianwords 7 hours ago | parent [-]

"Lets not use linters. We can employ humans to do the linting"

"Lets not write unit tests. We can hire developers to write good code that doesn't break"

▲ 6 hours ago | parent [-]
[deleted]
▲customguy 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

What fallacy are you on about? They asked a question.

> What positive value does the AI actually add that isn't circumventing a legal requirement that we decided to put in place?

You only reply with stuff nobody said. Which explains why you "see those fallacies repeated" every time, if you bring them up. A simple solution is to stick things actually are saying.

▲Henchman21 9 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Well in this age of performative bullshit, it gives the appearance of "medical practice" and allows the government to keep people drugged and complacent. What other reason do you need?

▲MC995 8 hours ago | parent [-]

> allows the government to keep people drugged and complacent

Drugged with a topical ointment and complacent by having less acne? This is a one-year trial for patients with mild-to-moderate acne. Let's not blow this situation out of proportion. This trial seems rather narrowly scoped and overall a positive idea for well understood treatments that hardly need an MD to begin with.

If you want to get into conspiracy theories of a government wanting a drugged and compliant citizenry just look no further than the sudden push legalizing THC across the country.