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pjmlp 4 hours ago

Which then influenced Mesa, Cedar, Interlisp-D inside Xerox.

Mesa and Cedar influenced Niklaus Wirth to come up with Modula-2/Lillith and Oberon.

Which had an influence on Rob Pike, on how he developed ACME for Plan 9.

Meanwhile StrongTalk, and Objective-C ended up influencing how Java came to be, and its approach to JIT compilation.

On another track Smalltalk ends up influencing Self design, which ends up having an effect on how V8 JIT was designed.

Then there is Ruby as well.

Pity that with all of this, many still never tried what actually means to use Smalltalk.

Note that Interface Builder started as a Lisp prototype, before being acquired by NeXT.

https://paulhammant.com/2013/03/28/interface-builders-altern...

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gumby 10 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

I really don’t remember much influence of smalltalk on interlisp at the time (I worked in the KSL, though I was working on 3Lisp so Interlisp was in theory just our implementation language…but of course boundaries were not what PARC was about.

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NetMageSCW 21 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Mesa and Cedar interested me as I got into programming languages, but I was more into Trellis/Owl (and had copies of the documentation provided to me by DEC SRC after I wrote to them).

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rjsw 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The LeLisp version of Interface Builder that JMH wrote at INRIA predates the timeline in your link.

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pjmlp an hour ago | parent [-]

That link is the official story I am aware of, where can I read about that one?

	▲	rjsw an hour ago \| parent [-]
		I have a paper copy of a paper (in French) about SOS Interface. Had scans of this at one point. There is a bit more of a timeline in a talk [1] he gave at INRIA a couple of years before he died. [1] https://www.inria.fr/en/jean-marie-hullot-perforated-cards-i...

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Rochus 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

> Which then influenced Mesa, Cedar

In what respect? What sources for this claim do you have?

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pjmlp 2 hours ago | parent [-]

The Xerox papers on digital archive, I can try to hunt them down, see for example the one on XDE Tajo experience for Mesa.

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Rochus an hour ago | parent [-]

MPS/MPL began in 1971; the Mesa name was adopted in June 1974; an Alto cross-compiler worked in spring 1975. Cedar is both a language (an extension of Mesa, e.g. by a GC, but the OO features proposed by Lampson were never implemented to my knowledge) and a development environment. I assume your claim is about the latter. The programming language doesn't have anything in common with Smalltalk, and the fundamental work even predated the latter.

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pjmlp 37 minutes ago | parent [-]

Yes my claim is about the IDE experience shared across all Xerox PARC environments, and how it affected the design of each language individually.

I will hunt down the papers.

	▲	Rochus 28 minutes ago \| parent [-]
		We should not forget that the original Alto operating system(s) had a GUI already and was the basis of well known applications like Bravo or Gypsy; the original OS and the said OS and applications were implemente in BCPL; and all were operational before Smalltalk-76. By Wirth's first PARC visit in 1976–77, Mesa had already become a self-hosting systems-development tool (small operating system and symbolic debugger); I'm not aware of any substantial Smalltalk influence at that time.