| ▲ | lukewarm707 6 hours ago |
| If the UK is in europe, you should make fun of the following: they don't have a first amendment. So to me, it's an authoritarian state preaching freedom. |
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| ▲ | mcv 6 hours ago | parent | next [-] |
| The order of amendments is just the order in which the constitution has been amended. It's meaningless to talk about "first amendments" in other countries. Talk about the actual laws and rights described therein. And as you can probably tell by now, the first amendment in the US is not actually preventing the US government from promoting a specific religion or silencing speech. It's just words on a paper at this point. Look at the actual practice. Several European countries do a much better job at protecting the rights described in the first amendment to the US constitution. |
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| ▲ | cesarb 6 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | > The order of amendments is just the order in which the constitution has been amended. It's meaningless to talk about "first amendments" in other countries. Also, at least here in Brazil, the way the constitution is amended is by patching it. For instance, our constitutional amendment number 115 (https://www.planalto.gov.br/ccivil_03/constituicao/emendas/e...) patches article 5 of the constitution to add protection of personal data as a right. But we wouldn't talk about "amendment 115", we would instead talk about "article 5 item LXXIX of the constitution"; that is, what matters is the patched text, not the law that patched it. I don't know about other countries, but it wouldn't surprise me if they take a similar approach. | | |
| ▲ | mcv 6 hours ago | parent [-] | | Same in Netherland. We don't count changes to our constitution, we simply refer to the article in the constitution. |
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| ▲ | lukewarm707 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | > "Talk about the actual laws and rights described therein." Freedom of speech. > "Look at the actual practice." The UK does not have that? The situation in the UK is very obtuse. It is confused. | | |
| ▲ | mcv 6 hours ago | parent [-] | | The UK does not have what? Book bans? Science censorship by the government? The government pushing TV shows off the air for criticising the government? The president banning certain news media for asking questions he doesn't like? The UK is not the world's biggest champion of free speech, but I think it's still doing better than the US right now. | | |
| ▲ | will4274 5 hours ago | parent [-] | | The US doesn't have book bans. Some public libraries not stocking some books isn't a ban. You can still buy Mein Kampf (or whatever you like) on Amazon. The president also didn't ban the media - he just didn't allow them in the Whitehouse. This is something we're rightly concerned about and pushing back on. The UK on the other hand, does ban ordinary speech by ordinary people in their homes. It's orders of magnitude worse than the United States, as any cursory examination would show. | | |
| ▲ | mcv 5 hours ago | parent [-] | | American public schools are notorious for banning books. Much more so than in many European countries. And the issue is not that fascist literature is getting banned, but quite the opposite. > The president also didn't ban the media - he just didn't allow them in the Whitehouse. This is something we're rightly concerned about and pushing back on. That's still a ban. It's interfering with the media's ability to report on the government. It's great that you're concerned, but it's still happening. > The UK on the other hand, does ban ordinary speech by ordinary people in their homes. In their homes? Do you have examples? I've never heard of anyone in the UK getting in trouble for criticising the government; it seems to be a time honoured tradition there. Whereas in the US, they now check your social media at the border and might not let you into the country if you've said anything critical of the president. And there's also the censorship on science, which is every bit as serious as the crackdown on government criticism. | | |
| ▲ | will4274 4 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | The UK arrests 12,000 people a year for their social media post. This tabloid has some examples https://nypost.com/2025/08/19/world-news/uk-free-speech-stru... . There is less example-focused reporting in more serious international media outlets (British state media avoids this topic). | | |
| ▲ | mcv 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | NYPost is not the most reliable source, but I can see several other sources reporting similar numbers. I also see criticism, including from the former PM, so it seems the UK police is indeed overly broad in its interpretation and enforcement of the law. But note that there can also be legitimate reasons why certain social media posts could be illegal: threats, blackmail, cyberbullying, hate speech, etc. Free speech is never absolute; there are always limits to it; also in the US. The most important (though not the only) reason why free speech is so important, is that it must always be possible to criticise the government, or powerful people in general. That is the big area where the US is attacking free speech: Trump's fragile ego can't handle criticism, so he leverages his power to deny critics, or even just journalists who ask serious questions, access to the White House. Or to remove them from TV (see Stephen Colbert). I don't know if anything like that is happening in the UK. Some of the reasons mentioned for arrests sound absolutely ludicrous, it definitely sounds like the police is far overstepping its mandate there. But the figure also seems to include threats and harassment, which I would say make absolute sense to prosecute. I haven't seen any evidence of government criticism getting punished in any way, but it's absolutely possible I've missed it; this was a very brief survey. If so, the UK might well be as bad or worse than the US in this. |
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| ▲ | senderista 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Do you literally think that elementary school libraries should stock any book ever published, regardless of content? Nobody actually believes that. There will always be a line somewhere, the disagreement is just over where the line should be drawn. That's why all the talk of "book banning" is disingenuous. | | |
| ▲ | viraptor an hour ago | parent [-] | | They don't have to stock everything. But it's not about stocking regardless of content - it's about refusing to stock specific content. They're not removing the least interesting N% - it's very targeted. | | |
| ▲ | senderista 2 minutes ago | parent [-] | | Of course it's targeted--do you think elementary school libraries should be stocking books with, say, violent sexual content? That is my point: everyone agrees a line must be drawn somewhere, the argument is just where to draw the line. Everyone is in favor of "banning books" from school libraries, they just differ on which books should be banned. |
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| ▲ | ascorbic 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| No, it doesn't have a first amendment, but it does have ECHR articles 9 (Freedom of thought, conscience and religion), 10 (Freedom of expression) and 11 (Freedom of assembly and association) |
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| ▲ | gond 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Sometimes, comments are so baffling, I couldn’t formulate an answer even if I tried, and that’s not due to the content. This is Not Even Wrong. |
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| ▲ | lukewarm707 6 hours ago | parent [-] | | Perhaps if there is no decisive counterargument, it is a valid opinion? | | |
| ▲ | Toutouxc 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | You can’t argue against Not Even Wrong, because it doesn’t mean anything. |
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| ▲ | mortalapeman 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I mean laws and rights are only useful if enforced. If the arm of government responsible for enforcement just doesn't and the people allow it, then what good is that purported freedom? |
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| ▲ | i_love_retros 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
| They also don't have a second amendment so it balances out |
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