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| ▲ | tzs 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | What's different is that they are not doing the same thing. Here are a couple articles about the charges and the case against Swartz [1][2]. Compare the elements of the various charges to what the AI companies are doing and there isn't really a good match. [1] https://volokh.com/2013/01/14/aaron-swartz-charges/ [2] https://volokh.com/2013/01/16/the-criminal-charges-against-a... | |
| ▲ | JumpCrisscross 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > What's different? One, time went on. The prosecution of Schwartz was seen as an overreach, as demonstrated by Ortiz’s failed political career thereafter. Two, Schwartz’s charges were only ever charged. No jury or judge signed off on them. Three, context changed. Schwartz wasn’t 5% of GDP. For better or for worse, that matters to voters. | | |
| ▲ | saghm 4 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | So what's different is that someone lost their political career (the horror!) and you don't get charged if you have enough money, got it | | |
| ▲ | JumpCrisscross 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | > what's different is that someone lost their political career (the horror!) and you don't get charged if you have enough money I don’t believe for a second Schwartz wouldn’t have been charged if his parents were rich. He would have been better equipped to fight it. But that’s it. Yes, our political economy is more corrupt today. But it’s silly to project the Schwartz example onto AI companies given the former is seen as a mistake and the latter are orders of magnitude more potentially valuable. And yes, if you can swing a state’s tax coffers meaningfully that’s going to influence voters and thus prosecutors. |
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| ▲ | porkshoe 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Voters might feel differently once they wake up and realize that it's 5% of GDP because of the anticipation that so many voters will be thrown out of work. | | |
| ▲ | JumpCrisscross 5 hours ago | parent [-] | | > once they wake up and realize that it's 5% of GDP because of the anticipation that so many voters will be thrown out of work But it's not. The only layer anyone has a handle on is consumers and companies paying AI ridiculous sums for AI. Some of those users are probably justifying it with labour replacement. But a lot may not be. So far, we haven't seen the employment effect outside recent college graduates at enterprise companies. > as implemented in the United States it's a malignant tumor, a theft of labor by capital, and it must be (minimally) adddressed with confiscatory taxes applied to all those involved with it's creation and operation It's also a godsend of economic growth. Growth other countries who are trying to balance their books would kill for. Without AI, we'd be in a failure state. Maybe we are, if this is all a bubble. But as it stands, there is paper wealth that can and has–limitedly–been taxed. That gives everyone options. > If a single AI billionaire exists in the year 2030, then the US is a failed state This is silly and projecting a narrow view of the world onto a larger voting population. Voters don't care so much that there are billionaires as that living standards haven't kept up with the rate at which they're being minted. Double tax brackets, add more on top, raise the minimum wage, raise Social Security taxes and benefits, expand Medicare, beef up antitrust, establish a progressive property tax on wealth that starts at 1,000x the median American's wage (about $65mm) and billionaires are fine. | | |
| ▲ | saghm 4 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | > It's also a godsend of economic growth. Growth other countries who are trying to balance their books would kill for. Without AI, we'd be in a failure state. Sorry, what? You're claiming that which countries exactly are failed states because of a lack of AI? And that the US would have failed, what, in the past four years if ChatGPT hadn't released or something? That's an absolutely insane thing to claim, but I have no clue how to else to interpret what you're saying. | | |
| ▲ | JumpCrisscross 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | > You're claiming that which countries exactly are failed states because of a lack of AI? No. I'm saying the difference between the United States and other profligate countries is that our economy is, even if just on paper, growing at the pace of a low-tier developing economy. That gives us living-standard and tax-base margin that others don't have. It means we have policy wiggle room. That doesn't guarantee we'll use it wisely. (We are not, currently.) > that the US would have failed, what, in the past four years if ChatGPT hadn't released or something? That's an absolutely insane thing to claim I should have said state of failure. Not failure state was unnecessarily ambiguous. Sorry. If our economy were growing at 1% or nil, and we were busy prosecuting a war in Iran and tariffing everyone, I think we'd likely tip into a recession and a political crisis more intense than the one we have. AI's largesse is buying us roadway. That roadway, in turn, may take us through to the midterms. |
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| ▲ | marcus_holmes 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > consumers and companies paying AI ridiculous sums for AI. VCs are paying ridiculous sums for AI. Consumers are not - we get tokens subsidised by VCs. > if this is all a bubble Interesting to see that revenue growth for both Anthropic and OpenAI has levelled off recently. Once this fact percolates through to the VCs, it's going to cause problems. All those valuations are based on projections of vastly greater revenue than they're getting now (and, ofc, achieving AGI and "winning" everything immediately that happens). This is looking less and less likely - the current batch of AIs are very, very, useful tools, but as we learn how to use them commercially they're not generating those limitless revenues that were anticipated. This tech, like all the rest, will go through the Gartner Hype Cycle, and that includes the Trough of Despair where it all looks shit and the bubble pops. I think we're approaching that rapidly. | | |
| ▲ | GeorgeWBasic 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | Many people are saying that's why there's this sudden, coordinated media push that AI is going to cause human extinction and needs regulation: because the regulation it will get, in classic regulatory capture, will serve the needs of the frontier companies and lock out any competition to them, so they can stay in business. |
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| ▲ | porkshoe 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | AI is creating a huge portion of it's value through labor replacement. Right now it's replacing "recent college graduates", which makes sense, because they're the least differentiated white collar workers. However it's advancing quickly, and it will (quite obviously) eat more and more white collar jobs. > It's also a godsend of economic growth. Fuck no. There is unprecedented Capex that is propping up the economy, as companies are rushing to create capacity that they intend to use to destroy jobs. So yes, those datacenter buildouts and chip purchases and power infrastructure buildouts are creating economic activity... all with the hope that someday companies will be able to fire a huge percentage of workers. You wrote it as though the gains were from productivity, which they really aren't... but even if they were (and that is likely to happen at some point), it would only be beneficial to actual people if that also results in greater distributions to labor. But a technology like this disfavors labor, so we can anticipate aggregation toward capital, and a slower velocity of money overall. > Voters don't care so much that there are billionaires as that living standards haven't kept up with the rate at which they're being minted. I suspect that voters will, at some point, care quite deeply that a lot of awful people got INSANELY rich by destroying tens of millions of lives, and making the K shaped economy have a much smaller segment of winners The policies you suggest could help... but we have an administration (all three branches) that oppose anything of the sort. They're much more likely to simply try to deploy AI to further oppress the people whose careers they destroyed, than to try to create soft-landings or fair outcomes. The party most supportive of mass AI deployment is a party that despises the poor, and would happily simply lock them up. This... is not a good mix. I hope that your optimism turns out to be warranted, but I think you're a fucking idiot, defending reckless bullshit that is executed as part of the biggest heist in modern history. | |
| ▲ | Forgeties79 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | > So far, we haven't seen the employment effect outside recent college graduates at enterprise companies. Ignoring the obvious “citation needed” and taking this as accurate, wiping out entry level jobs at massive employers is a serious problem with longterm effects we likely only understand a part of at best. We gleefully moved manufacturing overseas for decades and finally realized the extent of the cons after it was too late. We clearly needed a more balanced approach. Something tells me we’re setting ourselves up for the same mistake. |
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| ▲ | aeon_ai 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Perhaps, that still frames harassing and antagonizing "Aaron Schwartz" as a bad thing (he was a "good guy"), and then implying that said bad thing should happen to AI because it is bad, when the modern AI frontier lab is operating on the fundamental philosophy that Aaron shared which is that information is free. Compute, however, clearly is not. |
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