Exactly. Either way would be better. We have no vote but all the rules.

A couple of examples:

* We have one of the worlds best bottle deposit systems. Now that the EU has made their rules. Norway has to spend tons of money regressing to a common system. [1]

* Norway has good cleansing facilities for water/sewage. Now that the EU has made their decisions - based on research from urban regions of southern europe and the pollution of rivers - sparsely populated fjord communes of Norway dont know how the fuck they will pay for upgrades to their already modern systems, other than passing it on to an already strained population. [2] (Norwegiens are not generally rich. Our state is rich. They use the money for investing in anything but Norway. Manhatten real estate is good. Norwegian roads, hospitals and elder care is not*).

[1] https://www.nrk.no/rogaland/eu-vil-tvinge-norge-til-a-innfor...

[2] https://www.nrk.no/vestland/nye-eu-krav-til-avlopsreinsing-k...

* It's arguable that the poor state of many affairs in Norway is due to a spoiled bureaucracy and wastefull economy rather than lack of investement.

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birdsongs 35 minutes ago | parent [-]

Let's not exaggerate though, we have some of the best roads in the world. I have driven many, many places. Even the small fjord roads on the west coast are well paved, signed, and lit.

And we're building one of the most advanced tunnels in the world (deepest, longest, most complex), between Stavanger and Haugesund.

I agree the state could be less frugal, but it's hardly poverty conditions. It's not perfect, no where ever is. But I grew up in an actually corrupt nation and region. It is not like that here.

For healthcare, I don't know what you mean either. Specialists for non-time sensitive matters can take a while, but anything immediate (cancer, acute emergencies), is immediate access to some of the best healthcare on this planet, for free.

I saw family die in the US for our hospitals and healthcare. You have no idea how bad it is elsewhere if you think it's poor here.

I'm not saying things can't be better. But you're sitting on top of the mountain and complaining it's not tall enough. Look around you.

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laxd 26 minutes ago | parent [-]

I hear you. We are just not hitting the same notes. And people are dying from Scrooge-affairs of healthcare and eldercare here as well. I guess you have seen elderly turn into a skeleton and die because they stop eating when they hit the elderly-home? Would'nt feed their stuff to my dog. "Worlds richest country". Manhatten apartements.

	▲	birdsongs 4 minutes ago \| parent [-]
		Elder care really is bad, I know. I work in medical technology. I don't know why they're so frugal. I worry about getting old more than anything else.