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▲ silverFork 4 hours ago

while it is true that interdependence has always been there. But there are different levels. Can a person unclog the sink and toilet without calling the plumber. Can a person change the flush mechanism without calling a plumber. Can they change the bathroom fixtures without calling a contractor; Can they renovate the kitchen without hiring contractors. Can a person fix the lawn without calling professionals. Can they trim the bushes in backyard without hiring someone. Can they clear the snow themselves or would they need to hire a person. Can they wash their own car without going to car wash. Can they cook without ordering food. Can they clean without hiring cleaning people. Can the paint the wall without calling painters. Can fix the fallen button of the jacket without help. Can they cut their nails without going to a nail salon. Can they cut their own hair; Can they call their bank to figure who is billing them without using an Ai agent and cancel services they don't use. Can they invest without hiring professionals. Can they do their homework without using Ai. Can they learn how to swim without a teacher.

So there are many levels and many are more independent than others. There is a huge cost difference between one who is less interdependent and one who is very interdependent.

▲tripleee 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

If you can make $100/hr and can pay a contractor $30/hr to do something, why should you do it yourself (especially if you work full time and would rather use your free time for something else)?

If the skill is quick to learn, does it make sense to pre-learn it (and maintain the skill!), or just have the resources on hand to learn it if necessary?

I think this is presupposing that your skills are fixed and if anything happens you're stuck with always being dependent on others even if it's a really bad deal for you. That's not the case for most of these

▲TeMPOraL 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

A lot of these skills generalize way beyond the immediate problem. I don't have a "fix the faucet" skill, I don't even think in these terms - more in terms of "operate wrench", "operate set of screwdrivers", "understand how water faucet works", "understand how plumbing works" (at high level), and these skills let me diagnose and fix many problems myself, most of them not even related to water faucet. Etc.

Other considerations:

- Sometimes you need a solution NOW. Household infra tends to break down on Saturdays and Sundays a lot for some reason.

- Sometimes it's not even about efficiency. Like, we got ourselves an allotment garden recently. Per your $100/hr vs. $30/hr math, I could and should just hire a bunch of contractors to clean it up and set it up for us. But for me, this defeats the point of getting that garden in the first place.

- Some work is too small for a contractor with necessary skills to come, unless you let them bill you for 10x the work. I had to learn how to patch holes in ceiling myself, because the price for getting the 4m x 5cm hole fixed was the same as for renovating the whole ceiling.

EDIT:

Also what 'lotsofpulp said - sometimes you want the outcome to have a very particular shape or quality level, and to guarantee it, you'd need to micromanage the contractor so badly, that in many cases it's easier to do it yourself.

▲pa7ch 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

There is a lot of your time involved in hiring someone else even if not active labor. And potentially stress in finding a contractor who will do a good job and the right job.

Doing it yourself can be rewarding and potentially much quicker. Why not do it yourself if you're able ( and assuming its not one of those things a pro could do in 1/10th the time).

▲alnwlsn 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Finding someone who will take your money is easy. Finding that they can actually be trusted to do the work correctly, on budget and on a compatible schedule may or may not take more time than actually doing the thing itself.

Also, if you do not bother to learn at all, you have no way to verify that the work is actually done correctly. People will absolutely take advantage of your ignorance.

▲tripleee 2 hours ago | parent [-]

> you have no way to verify that the work is actually done correctly. People will absolutely take advantage of your ignorance.

Is that avoidable? Learning it yourself doesn't scale to more complex things. I can't go through medical school just to verify that my doctor's recommendations are good

▲alnwlsn an hour ago | parent | next [-]

Was speaking more generally there; I don't think you need to know everything but I don't recommend being clueless. For the doctor example, if you are prescribed medicine, I think you should know what it is, how much and how often you are supposed to take of it, and at least at a high level what it is supposed to do for you. I've known people who don't know any of the above, and while their health outcomes weren't necessarily bad they were more complicated than they could have been.

I'm not saying you need to be paranoid and scrutinize every decision down to the molecule, but you are the greatest person who cares about the things you care about, and you deserve to know about those things.

▲silverFork an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

With doctors, it is a leap of faith but what do you do if the diagnosis was not helpful? You have to have faith in yourself in determining whether the treatment is working or not. Medicine may not have a DIY solution but even then, there is rehab and understanding one's own disease that is required. Have you ever been to physio after a sport injury? 90% of rehap is done by yourself.

▲SoftTalker an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

You'll typically need to wait at home for the contractor to arrive, and while he's working. Unless you can work while you're doing that, that's $100/hr lost for that time, in addition to what you're paying the contractor.

Unless you have a spouse or partner at home who can be there, but then you're losing whatever they could have been earning if they were working instead.

▲silverFork 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

You have to make the extra $100 per hour to pay the $30. So the employer has to agree to hire you for more hours. Don't forget you have to find unpaid time to find a person who would do the job.

▲tripleee 3 hours ago | parent [-]

> You have to make the extra $100 per hour to pay the $30. So the employer has to agree to hire you for more hours

This sounds like you're dependent on your one employer for work. That might be the most important thing to become independent of!

▲silverFork 3 hours ago | parent [-]

Well regardless of how it works for me, people's incomes are not function of spending or consumption; so income is not a variable that can be adjusted typically against spending.

▲tripleee 3 hours ago | parent [-]

An independent electrician can take on an extra job to make more income, or less work if they don't need it. Is that not a variable that can be adjusted?

I agree that most people aren't in that situation and they're dependent on a specific employer giving them work, but it's not an impossible situation.

▲silverFork 2 hours ago | parent [-]

Sure if they can wing it, of course they should do it. Technicians are the best in evaluating the required amount of work that is needed for sure and they have large circle of contacts too.

▲lotsofpulp 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

It depends on the volatility of outcomes of paying $30 per hour for someone else to do something.

I like to do things myself or learn how to when I cannot sufficiently predict the quality of the service I will get or if the damage can be too great.

▲silverFork 3 hours ago | parent [-]

Right on. Finding the person who do it right is harder than doing it yourself. If they are any good, they will charge a lot or quit in time and find a better paying job.

▲carlosjobim an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

If you are capable of doing it yourself, but choose to hire somebody else to do it, then you are not dependent. If you are not capable of doing it yourself and must have somebody else do it for you, then you are dependent.

▲someonebaggy 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Between a person who can unclog the sink and a person who can trim the hedges which one is on a higher level?

▲theamk 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

A lot of things have no total ordering, independence level including. If a person A can unclog the sink and person B can trim the hedges, they are not comparable to each other; however both of them are less independent that person C who can do both.

This ordering requires defining the scope, and the narrower the scope, the easier it is to compare people. If you only look at "maintain the rented city apartment" and "live in rural house" in isolation, it's pretty easy to rank people by independence. But if you say that _either_ of those counts as "independence", the things get much harder to qualify. But either way, there will be people who can't do anything, people who can do everything, and a large mass of "uncomparable" people in the middle.

▲jakzurr 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

OK, I love this questions. For me, the hedges I could ignore for quite a few months. But I want the darn sink unclogged immediately. Which, I guess, is why I've made quite a mess a time or two.

▲silverFork 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Depends on the place and how expensive is the plumber. Around where I live, cutting bushes can be very expensive and so are plumbers. It all depends on the amount of labor and cost per hour.. Both are expensive.

▲chasd00 4 hours ago | parent [-]

> how expensive is the plumber

well you don't call a plumber to unclog a sink, you'd call a "handyman" or someone like that. You call a plumber when you need a new feed off of a buried gas line. I think you have to factor in the expertise needed which will drive cost per unit time.

▲silverFork 3 hours ago | parent [-]

You are right; I have never called anyone to know who to call.. LOL. I have an allergy to finding people to do minor stuff which is work itself harder than the work that needs to be done. There are people in gig economy that do that stuff too.