I think actually we're forgetting how economically valuable light is and how much lighting at night improves human lives.

While also - paradoxically - forgetting that there are plenty of dark places just outside your city if you're willing to drive to them.

Perhaps it's in service of baiting you to click.

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DangitBobby 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Who is forgetting that? Complaining that I can't see the fucking stars doesn't mean I don't understand that having lights let's me see in the dark.

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chaostheory 2 hours ago | parent [-]

You’re forgetting about how crime thrives in darkness. Better street lighting has helped reduced crime over the years. Better lighting has also reduced nighttime traffic accidents.

	▲	kulahan 39 minutes ago \| parent [-]
		Wishing you could see the stars does not mean you’ve forgotten anything. I can wish a day was warmer and cooler. Two opposing things can be wished for, because they’re wishes.

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hatthew 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> there are plenty of dark places just outside your city

In the eastern half of the US and the western 3/4 of mainland europe, there are very few spots that are below bortle 4. In these regions of the world, people in big cities (i.e. most people) would still need to drive 1-2 hours just to get to bortle 4, let alone below that.

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jaggederest 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The issue is that so much of night time lighting is wasteful and excessive, not that lighting doesn't enhance the world for humans.

I know for a fact that just putting old school light shutters on streetlights so they don't leak into, say, bedrooms and stay focused on pavement and sidewalks, and dimming them off hours, would be a huge change that doesn't diminish utility at all.

	▲	cadamsdotcom 2 hours ago \| parent \| next [-]
		> a huge change that doesn't diminish utility at all. It does though, by redirecting funds & human effort that could be used for more lighting. Here's a counter-anecdote though, to give you hope. In Bondi in Sydney there's a lighting upgrade underway on the beach promenade; the plan was circulated so I got to take a look. As you hoped they indeed did deeply consider throw angles and what's lit & unlit, and ran a competitive tender to choose among many vendors, settling on one they lauded for their flexibility in offering products that can throw at specific angles and leave specific areas unlit. In the plan published for public comments they specify the exact angles needed with diagrams and everything. So it's possible! It requires public servants to go above and beyond, which does happen, just not all the time and not in all the places. But it does happen!
	▲	ungreased0675 2 hours ago \| parent \| prev [-]
		I once saw motion activated streetlights that went from dim to bright as cars approached. It seemed very futuristic, and I wish a lot more places had them.

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atomicthumbs 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Light doesn't need to be aimed up into the sky to function. You need to spend more time in the world.