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▲ creativeSlumber 4 hours ago

How relevant is this fast/slow thinking thing with regards to current frontier models?

I know a large organization who's built their AI framework completely around this concept, and I feel that it's not really meaningful concept with the capabilities of current models.

▲jhrmnn 40 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

No clue what’s the consensus on this but my internal mental model is absolutely that LLM AI is pure fast mode, no slow mode. The “reasoning” loops are an attempt to mimic the slow mode but ultimately it doesn’t really work. I’m curious about the recent maths advances though, they seem to possibly challenge this.

▲Shorel 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

That's because an LLM thinks in terms of language, while we think in a different way, then convert the ideas to language. It can be said that language is a tool for the serialization (writing) and deserialization (reading) of human ideas. It is also an incredible useful and powerful tool by itself. This last sentence has been proved true by LLMs themselves. However, since it is working on the serialized version of ideas, I agree with you in that's not the optimal way to think and something not serialized (maybe world models) can be invented that's better for thinking. All this in no way diminishes the usefulness of language and of automated language generation.

▲virgilp 37 minutes ago | parent [-]

> That's because an LLM thinks in terms of language, while we think in a different way, then convert the ideas to language

Do we? I just learned from a speaker[1] that we literally need words to recognize emotions. People who have a poor vocabulary have lower emotional intelligence because without being able to attach a word to an emotion, the brain is unable to recognize & process it.

[1] Dude seemed to be knowledgeable about the subject. He's a specialized trainer, should be educated in this exact field. So hopefully I'm not lying to anyone here :)

▲Retric 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

You can ask a model for output directly and stop, or you can recursively ask it to keep refining the output.

That seems to fit the fast vs slow model of human thought reasonably well.

▲usernametaken29 3 hours ago | parent [-]

> You can ask a model for output directly and stop

That’s still several orders of magnitudes too slow to fit fast vs slow. Think of 30ms vs 3-4 seconds to get an idea of what we’re talking about here

▲Retric 2 hours ago | parent [-]

That’s a function of the amount of processing power involved not the underlying architecture of decision making.

▲usernametaken29 an hour ago | parent [-]

In terms of making an LLM faster but not in terms of meta-cognition. System 1 thinking as defined by Kahneman doesn’t have 100000x more compute than System 2, it is actually the opposite. That completely contradicts your claim

▲ghm2199 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Structurally speaking we learn nothing like AI, we don't use vast amounts of information to pick up completely new skills. We also make decisions by using prior knowledge and emotions.The latter part is important, Thinking fast and slow cannot operate in a world of AIs as they stand today unless we are willing to grant them rights — because you have to teach them to make decisions based on all kinds of emotions — which is tricky at best.

▲TeMPOraL 2 hours ago | parent [-]

> we don't use vast amounts of information to pick up completely new skills.

Except, we do.

▲emp17344 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Seems like a terrible idea in the first place to build an entire organization around a single pop-sci book, but that’s just me.

▲TeMPOraL 2 hours ago | parent [-]

It's indeed a terrible idea - as in, it's great. You get benefits of cross-marketing: you ride on a popularity of a well-known book, and as you also drive more sales of it, even if you don't have a deal and don't benefit from that directly, you strengthen the loop and solidify your brand.

This choice doesn't really constrain what the organization can do, either. Pop-sci books have plenty of wiggle room in interpretation, and afford a lot of "you're holding it wrong" dismissals of criticism, that with a bit of clever copywriting, the organization can do absolutely anything and still claim it's embodying the framework/theory of the book.

▲olgava 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

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▲anotha_one 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

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