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▲ GodelNumbering 10 hours ago

This is the golden age of model training. Some days ago, I decided I wanted a local CPU only model that can perform exceptionally well for English to Bash translation (to avoid the googling for command syntax). I got a bunch of subagents to generate large amount of training data (140k+ samples), got the Qwen 3 0.6B base model, pointed Astra at it, and off to the races. It trained for 2 days (on and off) and I got a surprisingly good model for my task! The total active time I spent was a few hours. And it is still improving, what a time to be alive!

▲amelius 9 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I don't understand. If you have a model that can do bash examples already (your subagents), then why would you need to train a model?

Or are the subagents generating your training data using a closed/paid model?

▲Aurornis 9 hours ago | parent | next [-]

A very small, highly specialized model can use negligible resources (CPU, energy) to accomplish the same task.

For everyday work that happens frequently it's better to have a tiny specialized model instead of making billable API calls or turning your laptop into an 80W space heater for 20 seconds to run a general purpose model.

The large models can be used to generate synthetic training data. Tell them to make up 100,000 tasks paired with the resulting output as a 1-time cost. Then use that to train a small model.

Think of it as distillation, but focused on a specific task.

▲nearbuy 8 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Given that they're just using it to avoid the googling for bash command syntax, I'm not sure they'll save in the end against the 140k training examples they generated.

▲selcuka 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

You can buy a $10 subscription for a month to generate the training data, then cancel your subscription. The trained model is yours to use (and share with others) forever.

▲kubb 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Good observation! It would have to be offset with O(140k) queries to the model, which is, well, unlikely.

▲Lalabadie 7 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Just like with OSS in general, being able to distribute it is what makes the effort worthwhile.

This particular example is maybe a niche, but 1400 people can use a few hundred queries in a reasonable amount of time.

▲computably 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

If it's about the latency / flow disruption, spending a few hours once could easily be worth it if the result is actually good enough to skip googling/retries.

▲verdverm 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

you can probably generate quite a few example pairs in a single shot, you also likely don't need the best models for this either

▲tomrod 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I feel like we need a good index for these kinds of specialized models, especially if you plan to open them up. The downside is a new bash version means potentially new training.

▲jamienk 8 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

This is so cool - I'm aware of this in a vague way. Can you write a little tutorial or give some good links. I want this to be the next new things I do :)

▲newswasboring 7 hours ago | parent [-]

Better yet package it up in a skill!

▲computerex 9 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

The models he is using to generate training data are presumably commercial models. He is distilling their bash knowledge into a much smaller model he can run locally fast and cheap.

▲brainless 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I have been trying a mix of fine-tuning and I am amazed that most people do not see this coming.

A tiny, smaller than 1b parameter model, fine-tuned, can kick ass for constrained work. I do not have a lot of budget, I fine-tune only on a 16GB M4 Mac Mini. But that also tells me the potential is wild. Progress has been slow since I moonlight on this.

I have been trying to build a set of models + agents for full-stack development, where each model does only a small piece, like take user prompt and break into backend/frontend tasks. Then a Rust+Diesel model, a Rust+Auxum model, a Solid+Router model and so on. I know this is wild but this is just theory - can 5 or 6 Qwen 3.5 0.8b models do full-stack web development? My hunch says they can, better than what most people expect. Heck, with a good harness, it might beat all the cheaper models for the specific task, like Haiku or Luna.

▲luisfmh 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Curious about how you generated the training data? Was it just asking an existing model to generate a bunch of examples?

I ask cause would this be a kind of model distillation?

I have a small model I'm looking to train on some data, and I have some real live data but I'd love to be able to extend it.

▲GodelNumbering 9 hours ago | parent | next [-]

All synthetic data. For this usecase, it was easier because all current generation LLMs, even the small models, are really good at bash commands (and SQL queries too)), so you can reasonably start batches of cheap subagents whose output is reviewed by a more capable model and merge into main training set. After 100k, I had to standing instructions to run the generation loops selectively, meaning only update samples in a given area where we see poor capability.

▲jeremyjh 6 hours ago | parent | next [-]

It would be awesome to share your training set on hugging face if it’s easy to de-personalize it. The largest I could find was only 800 rows.

▲mtud an hour ago | parent [-]

I’ve previously fine tuned (SFT, currently trying to distill) models using this https://huggingface.co/datasets/westenfelder/NL2SH-ALFA

▲verdverm 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Do you have a write-up or git repo for this? Would love to learn more and/or dig into the guts

edit: others have asked any you have replied "soon (tm)", looking forward for that day

▲toasty228 9 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

It is a form of distillation, as long as you're working a very narrow "trivial" topics it works perfectly.

▲ByteOfWood 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Here's a similar project for those who want to replicate: https://github.com/ThorOdinson246/whatisit-nl2sh

Not my project

▲teeskay 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

If it’s one of thing that you want just for English to bash shell commands, I will create AST, it is deterministic, exceptionally fast, no tokens so no need to fine tune existing model, please let me know your thoughts.

▲brainless 2 hours ago | parent [-]

You can go quite far using a human language to Bash grammar based setup but at some point the input prompts are harder to translate. The OP has existing projects that work with AST quite deeply so I assume they know about that already.

I am building a natural language to CSV/Excel commands for a "wrangler" type desktop app. Same issues. The MVP is being built with parsers of sorts, entirely code generated. Then I want to fine-tune a tiny model at some point.

https://github.com/brainless/baho

▲equinumerous 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

That's a really impressive result. There are all kinds of small tasks like this I use an LLM for, but theoretically if you broke all the sub-use cases into local-only models, and had something lightweight that routed to the right model, you could have faster and cheaper workflows. E.g. something trained on the linux man pages for common commands, since it's usually quicker to ask an LLM for a specific command with flags than to consult the man pages.

▲dominotw 8 hours ago | parent [-]

> That's a really impressive result.

we dont know what the result is and how its impressive.

▲torginus 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Sorry for the aside, but I noticed half the usecase of AI is fixing the awful DX.

▲oDot 8 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I appreciate the aside. Interesting observation

▲verdverm 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

I'm literally working on context/harness engineering right now (a set of opencode plugins)

Aside on the aside, I welcome this new era of really personal software. Not Ai's being sycophants, rather being able to easily and quickly change, adapt, or extend software I am not familiar with.

▲shriphani 10 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

what hardware are you using to train?

▲GodelNumbering 10 hours ago | parent [-]

I didn't have a local GPU, so I asked it to go out and find hardware. It found a google TPU v6e which seemed reasonably priced. I gave it my google api key. I told it to use TPU only when training and bring it down afterwards. That's about it.

▲libria 9 hours ago | parent | next [-]

> I gave it my google api key

This is the part where the narrator looks at the camera and says "Don't try this at home, kids!"

▲MisterMunchkin 9 hours ago | parent | next [-]

You’re absolutely right, I shouldn’t have rented a 200 GPU cluster for $35,000/hour. That’s on me.

[Search: Can I refund Google cloud?]

It looks like we’re not able to ask for a refund since we did actually use all of that compute intentionally.

Would you like me to write you a pleading email to send to the support team?

▲edot 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

There’s a safer way to do this with nearly no added friction. Give it a read only API key. Then just ask it to write the API calls into a bash script and then read it and run it yourself. The agent can still inspect the live resources and diagnose and give you more commands to run. I do agree I wouldn’t give it create / write access.

▲bitpush 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Why? Isnt the API key scoped to a project and specifically made for this?

Are you confusing this with an OAuth token or something?

▲raizer88 9 hours ago | parent [-]

Until astra goes bonkers and use the tpu for days

▲verdverm 7 hours ago | parent [-]

this is what billing caps are for

https://docs.cloud.google.com/billing/docs/how-to/budgets-sp...

▲hgoel 9 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

I've done this sort of thing before but with Vast. Pre-deposited some money online, then let the LLM request and manage a training run on an allocation. Worked pretty well without risking bankruptcy.

▲otterley 10 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

What kind of observability did you have over this process? I’m interested in how my peers are operating these efforts.

▲GodelNumbering 9 hours ago | parent [-]

On the cloud side, nothing valuable existed, so the training couldn't ruin anything it didn't create. On the laptop side, I usually ask the agents to create named scripts for everything it needs to access, then those local script directory is green-lit with approve all. For cost, I kept giving it new budget in the 20-30 dollar increments.

I had to intervene a few times. For instance, as smart as the models are said to be (Astra), it would copy the full training run, train on the server, pull every checkpoint to the local machine, then run tests, update. So, the bandwidth bill was as high as training bill for the first 6 hours. It could have simply tested each checkpoint on the server, saved time and money, didn't occur to it until I said.

▲otterley 8 hours ago | parent [-]

Perhaps I wasn’t clear. What kind of instrumentation and alerting, if any, did you employ to keep an eye on it?

▲ 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]
[deleted]
▲varispeed 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> I told it to use TPU only when training and bring it down afterwards.

I wouldn't put my house on it. Brave.

▲shriphani 10 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Neat!

▲amrrs 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Did your Astra do any RL or just SFT? did it make up any benchmark to ensure the fine-tuning was a success?

▲peab 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Wow that's awesome

▲soundworlds 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

See, you should now share it, so others can benefit without everyone having to do the same re-training :)

▲verdverm 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Seriously, I'm using a Qwen 3.8 27B on the homelab, distilled from supposed Fable traces. Regardless, the difference is notable, less thinking, better output. Distilled / heavy quant is better than the original (imv)

https://huggingface.co/vwdubb/Qwen3.8-27B-Fable-Distill-NVFP...

side quest, are fable distillations only wrong when it's another country?

▲PEe9bB7D 10 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

i also need more info!

▲GodelNumbering 10 hours ago | parent [-]

I am thinking about opensourcing everything, although this is not my main domain or my main startup, so the overhead of huggingface etc seems a bit unnecessary

Edit: will do as soon as possible

▲jack_pp 9 hours ago | parent | next [-]

just ask the agent to write it up if you don't have time to do a write-up yourself

▲genxy 5 hours ago | parent [-]

Just use the post-one-off-project-to-huggingface-skill.md

▲equinumerous 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

+1, would like to see. Even if it's not fully "ready for consumption", it's probably enough to reproduce the results.

▲jjice 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Please do! Small, specialized models need more love and the time you spent would be a gift!

▲atombender 9 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Would also love to read a write-up about this!

▲yashthakker 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

[dead]

▲okamiueru 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Golden age before the age that ends humanity. Not talking about any "rogue AI", just the known statistical models of what is coming due to climate change.

▲ an hour ago | parent | next [-]
[deleted]
▲verdverm 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Do those statistical models account for declining birth rates or are they based on prior population growth projections?

▲xhevahir 8 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

> what a time to be alive!

It's good to hear you're enjoying yourself, but I suggest retiring that expression. It's really beginning to grate.

▲willy_k an hour ago | parent | next [-]

It’s not so good to hear your pessimism, but I suggest retiring spreading it online. It’s really beginning to grate.

▲JSR_FDED an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

Ehh, I’m more annoyed by people starting comments with “ehh”