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▲ Topcoat is pushing the boundary of server applications with Rust(tokio.rs)
39 points by sagacity 4 hours ago | 27 comments
▲sc68cal 9 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

It's interesting to see that they let you mix markup with logic directly in rust, but I have worries about maintainability. I remember the bad old days of PHP where you'd mix markup with logic directly, even when doing OOP with classes and it really made things more difficult long term.

▲josephg 3 minutes ago | parent [-]

It’s not a rust thing. Custom markup is usually implemented in rust frameworks using macros. If mixing macros and logic becomes a problem, we can change how the macros are implemented.

▲jazzypants 41 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Some absolutely great work, but I don't know why you would come up with a new term for a server component (shard). Why not just use the obvious client/server annotations so you don't have to define a novel term for new users?

▲victorbjorklund an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Sounds a lot like Liveview in Phoenix.

▲jdw64 an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Has anyone here tried it?

▲bickfordb 16 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

I haven't tried to the web app part but I've tried Toasty. The API seemed to be a little simpler and nicer to use than SeaORM for me. Here are a few things I liked in Toasty:

- In SQLite UUIDs are default stored as compact blobs instead of inefficient varchar/text (SeaORM)

- Timestamps were easier via jiff instead of chrono (SeaORM)

- Model structs use the actual name of the $table instead of being named like $tablemodule.(Model|ActiveModel) (SeaORM) they are just $Table. This makes writing libraries a little simpler that need to use entity struct's from two separate modules/crates otherwise you get a name collision on Model/ActiveModel and need to do alias imports.

- There's an API to fetch related data to a query similar to Django ORM. IIRC this is missing from SeaORM

- The query expression language doesn't cover as much of SQL as SeaORM but seems to be enough for most web apps.

- I didn't like how the migration system works. I would skip that part of the library

▲haellsigh an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I have tried it. It feels pretty good to use, but you have to keep in mind that it's very early software. They currently break the API every other week, and it's still missing a lot of fundamental features. I have made a few basic web apps with it, and on v0.8.1 it was still missing a lot of reactivity which meant you had to use Javascript to bridge the gap.

▲jdw64 an hour ago | parent [-]

I used it in the early days, and it seems it's still the same. Thank you.

▲moffers an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

We’re using it to build our web app (https://uncook.xyz) and while it’s a slight departure from my team’s NodeJS background it’s been pretty cool to work with

▲jdw64 33 minutes ago | parent [-]

cute app

▲cube00 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> Look, I don’t know where we are going.

As honest as it is I can't risk using this anywhere near production if this is the attitude.

▲eminence32 an hour ago | parent | next [-]

Luckily there's a lot of people who write prototype code, toy projects, and other "non-production" code that can experiment with a new project like this

▲cpursley 20 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Go use Java then.

▲csoups14 an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

I'd rather honestly than false confidence, there's something admirable about being this clear for sure

▲lolakutty an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

Why bother with rust when you can write it in C and ask an LLM to weed out the memory bugs?

▲cultofmetatron 43 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

> write it in C and ask an LLM to weed out the memory bugs?

because a non-determinist chain of reasoning is not the same as a fully deterministic algorithm. Its the best tool when a deterministic system is not feasable.

▲huijzer an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

If you go that way, why not write LLVM Intermediate Representation? And if you know your server arch anyway, why not write machine code?

I personally like Rust for web applications a lot because you can catch many bugs at compile time instead of during tests or runtime.

▲lolakutty an hour ago | parent | next [-]

>If you go that way, why not write LLVM Intermediate Representation? And if you know your server arch anyway, why not write machine code?

Nah, C is good enough for me.

> catch many bugs at compile time...

Rust borrow checker is too dumb that you catch many non-bugs as well...I don't like that.

Mmm..LLMs also generates false positives. But at least you can reason with it...

▲officialchicken 42 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Reuse is bad / NIHS is good and it's hard to reach token metrics using accepted engineering practices. That leads to the point of having the LLM invent a new specialized job security chip architecture for your IR just to run CRUD app.

▲hmokiguess an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

Soon we're gonna need a way to catch bugs at prompt time

▲benjiro29 37 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Why bother with rust when you can write it in C and ask an LLM to weed out the memory bugs?

Here is a idea, why not combine both? Have the advantage of Rust its build in checks and LLMs independent checks. Now you get both for a even more safe program.

▲Georgelemental an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Why bother with asking an LLM to weed out the memory bugs when you can write it in Rust?

▲lolakutty an hour ago | parent [-]

> when you can write it in Rust..

Because fuck borrow checker..(and the horrible syntax)

▲_flux 43 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

So actually the answer to your question is that Rust provides excellent guardrails against memory safety issues, and in some cases, for code correctness as well, by allowing more behavior to be encoded in types. One of those guardrails is borrow checker.

Thus, the agent needs to iterate less.

▲felipellrocha 41 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I don't get the complaints about the horrible syntax. The syntax is fine... Which is weird cause I only get complains from c/c++ folk, and that set of languages have objectively AWFUL syntax

▲BadBadJellyBean 42 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

As if C was any better than rust. So much clutter. So hard to grok with all the macros. I'd rather read rust than C.

▲Ar-Curunir an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

Why bother with C when you can get an LLM to write it in Rust and not waste tokens on finding memory bugs