(Below has nothing to do with people who need surgery due to catastrophic injury or congenital defect.)

Most surgeries are followed by more surgeries.

And the hard truth is that most surgeries happen because most people do not have the discipline to do what's needed over many months to solve the problems they are having with the chronic pain they are in. They want a faster solution and are never really told by anyone that the only real permanent solution is one that will be difficult and take months.

Rather than change their habits and their environments and their bodies, people opt to do things that have surprisingly low rates of success and more often than not result in a state than can never be fixed.

Some people get past the point of no return. For those people, surgery may be the only option. But for most people the only real option is a change in lifestyle that is more or less like deciding you are going to get very fit. It takes months and in the mean time, theres a lot of effort and discomfort.

In addition, most people don't really get how much of their back pain and ailment is due to ergonomics. That their bed is wrong. That they are sitting in a bad office chair or couch.

But more than that, most people don't get how central exercise and core strength are for maintaining the health of your back.

So before you get back surgery, consider getting a new office chair, exercising more, and facing that pain for a few more months. Work toward a real solution.

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edelbitter 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

There is an even stronger version of your argument, one that works without shifting to the same old "you don't need the expensive stuff, just get your life together" advice that already has kind of a bad rep for not fixing depression. You can accept that you cannot inject much more of necessary discipline and motivation into people after they leave school.. and still argue against many types of surgery in mostly the same way: by strictly comparing them to other costly endeavors that could bring about those probably-helpful life changes. Many more people could work towards that "real solution" by benefiting from some other spending.. which merely happens to be cheaper than surgery, while still not being entirely up to them.

Example: My town installed an outdoor "grown-up playground" in the nearby park. Probably cost a little over two complicated surgeries. Already saved 10 people from neglecting upper body workout. Just 10 people having a really low-barrier-of-entry gym available to them whenever walking their dog. I suspect its already been cost-effective. Plus, it is reusable and low-maintenance. Try to beat that in the operating room!

	▲	asdff 2 hours ago \| parent [-]
		The thing is, the fitness level OP is talkign about is not going to be compatible with the grown up playground sort of activities. You need to get jacked basically. You need to be lifting to failure 3x5ish hitting all muscle groups 2x a week with compound lifts. You should be struggling to go up stairs after working legs. Working out is good, yes, but you need to actually work the body and make it suffer so that it may actually be damaged enough for high rates of muscle growth. So many people do not do enough because they don't like to push themselves, they take it easy and they end up wasting their time in the gym. Even more true as you get older and natural testosterone levels start declining and limiting your muscle growth. This is why people end up taking spin classes when they can just do it at home on their own stationary bike. For some people, they need a jockey who will kick their ass along with the peer pressure of a room full of people dumping out sweat.

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lumost 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

It’s worth recalling that a large (possibly majority) share of the population has extreme limits on their time imposed by economics.

While I’m fortunate now to be able to dedicate time to the gym and other physical fitness, this was not always the case.

We lack the societal incentive structure to allow someone working 60-80 hours a week to reduce their workload to physically recover. We do allow that same person to spend 5-10 years income on surgeries which have 4-6 week recovery times.

	▲	asdff an hour ago \| parent \| next [-]
		People have more time than they expect. Very few people are working 16 hour days. https://www.bls.gov/charts/american-time-use/emp-by-ftpt-job... Note how two job holder average is barely above single job holder average. These are probably people working two part time jobs with a 4-5 hour shift each. How about activities? BLS has some data there. https://www.bls.gov/charts/american-time-use/activity-by-age... Note the leisure column. Screen time average is about 7 hours a day (not the best source I guess compared to say if apple published their data): https://www.demandsage.com/screen-time-statistics/ You could do a lot of good with a 3 day a week 30 min compound lift strength training workout. Deadlifts, squat, bench press, overhead press, pull ups.
	▲	porridgeraisin an hour ago \| parent \| prev [-]
		The thing is, exercise becomes a thing time is even a concern for only if it has been neglected for long enough. It is as important as bathing or brushing and the primary issue is that its not framed as equally important as those things. If it was, people would do it every single day. If they did it every single day, 15 minutes a day is more than enough. However, given that people "graduate" their 20s without having done this, then everything you say becomes true, people end up so weak that they have to rebuild even basic core strength and posture. So practically what I suggested is useless except for maybe the next generation.