| ▲ | binlog 6 hours ago | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Try this - go to a bank and say “I’d like to borrow money using my 401k/Roth IRA as collateral. If I fall behind in payments you can liquidate the entire thing, including penalties, and make yourself whole.” You’d think they’d jump over each other to lend money against such a stable, secure asset right? Except they’ll say “sorry, this isn’t allowed. IRS treats borrowing against an untaxed retirement account as an early withdrawal, even if the asset itself stays untouched.” Turns out the government fully understands the concepts of stocks, gains, unrealized net worth and more, and has laws on the books to make sure you are being taxed appropriately for them. Meanwhile billionaires have convinced you – through their machinery of media, influencers, politicians and more – that this exact same reasoning absolutely cannot be applied to their own wealth. Because it’s “paper money”. It doesn’t exist. There’s nothing to tax. Just cannot be done, or it’ll bend the laws of spacetime. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| ▲ | ndriscoll 5 hours ago | parent | next [-] | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Your 401k/Roth IRA (subtracting early withdrawal penalty) amortized over the loan period literally do count when considering qualifying income for a conventional mortgage. This is not a taxable event. You do not actually have to make distributions. It's just standard procedure that it counts when determining whether you can pay the loan. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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| ▲ | nullc an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
> Meanwhile billionaires have convinced you – through their machinery of media, influencers, politicians and more – that this exact same reasoning absolutely cannot be applied to their own wealth. Quite the opposite: Socialist politicans and their media lapdogs have dishonestly convinced you that wealthy people are escaping taxes en-masse by taking out loans and that this can only be stopped by eye watering wealth taxes. They frequently use a motte and bailey confusing unrealized gains (which certainly exist in huge amounts but are also significantly fiction) with tax escape via loans collateralized by securities. But it's not true: were there meaningful tax escape that way it could be addressed by establishing rules with conditions where taking a loan against securities can be treated as realizing gains (and adjusting cost basis accordingly). Doing so would be minimally disruptive and distorting and have relatively little legal complication (at least compared to wealth taxes!). But the reality is that the claimed tax escape isn't happening (at least not at any significant scale) particularly in the current interest rate environment, so a reasonable policy change to address it would be a no-op. ... and to grow and maintain their political standing they specifically need to push a NON-SOLUTION because they can't campaign on something that was simply done and solved, and to retain your (highly monetizable) attention they need to rile you up against an Enemy, and certainly never address the state's addiction to wasteful spending and buying votes with tax dollars as one half of the revenue vs expenses equation. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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| ▲ | pmalynin 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Incredibly terrible example because you are allowed to borrow money against a 401k, up to $50000 with no penalties as long as you pay yourself back at whatever schedule you have determined for yourself | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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