| ▲ | cjrp 7 hours ago |
| How many of those 30 are unarguably "bad" posts though? Threats of violence and so forth. |
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| ▲ | erkt 7 hours ago | parent | next [-] |
| 250 years ago some people made some bad posts about throwing some tea into the harbor. Calling for revolution isn't a bad post. |
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| ▲ | _verandaguy 5 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | This comment is remarkable in its lack of nuance. There's a huge spectrum of, let's call it, aggressive speech, ranging from trying to organize against an oppressive figure or class, to just punching down against people and groups who have either done nothing to the author of that speech which warrants an aggressive response, or where the target of that speech is already a victim. My opinion is that free-speech absolutism is a policy position that causes much more harm than good, and which erodes social cohesion. There should be perpetual debate about where we as a society accept where the line is between speech which is allowed and that which is disallowed. And to wit, on the tea party analogy: how's that working for the US now? | |
| ▲ | monkey_monkey 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Big fucking difference between saying you want to throw some tea into a harbor vs inciting that hotels containing asylum seekers should be burnt down. | | |
| ▲ | enedil 7 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | That's charitable to say that nobody was saying anything except for "let's drown that tea". | | |
| ▲ | monkey_monkey 6 hours ago | parent [-] | | Weird that you think it was legal for people to say "kill the king" back then. | | |
| ▲ | UpsideDownRide 6 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Diffrence being state did not have control to stop disgruntled people from organizing. And it might be that preventing such formations is actually detrimental long run. | | |
| ▲ | someonebaggy 5 hours ago | parent [-] | | The state did everything they could to prevent it back then, just as they do right now. | | |
| ▲ | iamnothere 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Using this line of argumentation, you might as well start enslaving (sorry, “impressing”) people into your navy again. | |
| ▲ | cucumber3732842 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Everything they could was a lot less back before the fruits of industrial productivity allowed people to have their basic needs met while giving a huge fraction of their surplus to the state to do what it pleases with. |
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| ▲ | Catloafdev 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Buddy you aren't addressing the comments that are replying to you. You gotta stay on-topic. You keep coming up with random things to compare to that make no sense to anybody but you. Who said it was legal to say "kill the king"? |
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| ▲ | djha-skin 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | I mean, in terms of property damage, the Boston Tea Party was a pretty big deal. Probably in arson territory in today's dollars. |
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| ▲ | wooger 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I'd argue that nothing is "inarguable" |
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| ▲ | liveoneggs 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| If 27/30 meet the bar for "bad" is that an acceptable level of policing speech? 19/30? |
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| ▲ | PowerElectronix 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I dislike harassing, threats, hate speech and everything wrong that people yell to other people. But I dislike even more that we decide that the solution to it is to pass laws prohibiting speech, and even more that the ones in charge of passing those laws are very incentivised to prohibiting criticism to themselves or their policies or their ideologies. |
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| ▲ | someonebaggy 5 hours ago | parent [-] | | Why is speech a specific, precise red line? Yelling "fire" in a crowded theatre (and I'm aware that the case which coined this phrase was completely stupid, but the phrase itself stands) should probably not be legal, even though it is speech. | | |
| ▲ | iamnothere 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | Why not? If shouting “fire” causes no harm, what’s the issue? And if it causes harm, isn’t that adequately served by civil lawsuits? Not everything on earth needs to be a criminal matter. |
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| ▲ | testfrequency 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| The chronically online anti-uk folks like to turn a blind eye to anything that’s justifiable for matter of principal. It’s why the US has such a problem with gun control and laws. I could argue everyone should have guns, and it’s just bad people, right? |
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| ▲ | WmWsjA6B29B4nfk 7 hours ago | parent [-] | | Right. Switzerland has 100x guns per capita than UK and 2x less intentional homicides than UK. | | |
| ▲ | testfrequency 6 hours ago | parent [-] | | Why are we comparing Switzerland? Do you want to try again with the United States? Let me give it a go; Switzerland has higher gun homicides than the UK. |
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| ▲ | nullbio 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
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| ▲ | GJim 6 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | > Considering they arrest people for saying "there are only two genders" Citation please. (EDIT: Citation of an arrest just for saying that, not an arrest for incitement.) | | |
| ▲ | tredre3 6 hours ago | parent [-] | | He's clearly quoting the Graham Linehan case where a group of police officers arrested him for his tweets that did include the only-two-gender thing. However, as you suspected, that's not all he said. Linehan suggested in another tweet that people should punch transwomen in the face if they refuse to leave the female bathroom. | | |
| ▲ | dspillett 6 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | It was the balls: If a trans-identified male is in a female-only space,
he is committing a violent, abusive act. Make a scene,
call the cops and if all else fails, punch him in the
balls.
By inference he thinks that if someone makes you feel uncomfortable, by doing nothing illegal nor immoral (in the mind of a right-thinking person), punching their genitalia is acceptable. If I ever meet him I think I might feel quite uncomfortable, which would be unfortunate. | |
| ▲ | nullbio 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I'm not actually. How did you get "arrested for tweets" from my post where I said it was a video of a 20-something year old having a debate with someone at a pub? I'll take that as confirmation that it happens all the time though - since this was evidently not an isolated case, as you have pointed out. | |
| ▲ | failbuffer 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Unpopular opinion: your right to free speech includes the right to advocate for violence, so long as it's not imminent (as in inciting a riot). That includes your right to support Hamas or Israel, your right to support abortion, your right to support defensive gun use, your right... well actually your right to support a lot of things given how readily innocuous things are described by opponents as "violence" or "assault". Fortunately in the U.S. this is recognized under Brandenburg v. Ohio. |
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| ▲ | Quarrelsome 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > Considering they arrest people for saying "there are only two genders" Can we please stop using a country you clearly have limited understanding of, as a prop in your morality play for your own activism? Bear in mind that these "takes" are often sensationalised with useful context removed in order to better sell the message to yank markets. If you're gonna chat shit about my nation, please afford it some level of respect in doing some research of conflicting views instead of parroting whatever twaddle the demagogue du jour is bleating. | | |
| ▲ | nullbio 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | I can't help it if facts about your country offend you. Maybe if you cry some more, you'll feel better. What I said is no secret, there are thousands of videos of police in the UK arresting people for saying the most trivial benign things. Perhaps that is what you should have issue with, not the people who mention it in passing. > please afford it some level of respect in doing some research of conflicting views There are no "conflicting views" to research. You're just upset that reality doesn't align with your dogma. | | |
| ▲ | Quarrelsome 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | You said: > Considering they arrest people for saying "there are only two genders" I invite you to come try that out. You'll be fine unless you're a complete penis about it. What you should probably clock is that Graham Linehan doxxes and harasses people online with his followers brigading. If you recall the bail conditions when he got arrested was that he had to stop posting on twitter for its duration. THAT'S the headline issue, he's a publisher with a big audience. He's not just saying it at the back of a pub, and he's one of those obsessives that posts about it all the time. Do you see the difference between what you said and what he gets in trouble for? Reducing it to just saying "there are only two genders" is taking harassment, brigading and doxxing and putting it in a nice frock so you can pretend its a victim. I've lived in my country for decades and have added nuance to this subject. What gives you the confidence that makes you think you're better informed about my nation that I am? | | |
| ▲ | nullbio 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | The fact that you're quite clearly either ill-informed, or blinded by your own biases. I'm not sure why you keep mentioning this Graham person when I had never mentioned them. Seems like you're trying to reframe using a cherry-picked example. https://www.foxnews.com/world/blogger-arrested-sharing-anti-... Do you think someone should be arrested for sharing a meme that says f** Hamas? Or did you not know about this? It's common knowledge that the UK is arresting people on the daily for harmless things that no one actually cares about. Should someone go to jail for saying "fuck serial killers"? Is that a hate crime too? | | |
| ▲ | Quarrelsome 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | > Do you think someone should be arrested for sharing a meme that says f* Hamas? If you had an idea about our laws you'd realise that's not the problematic part. The issue is under the Equalities Act 2010 religion and ethnicity are protected characteristics. So its the "fuck Islam" and "fuck off to a Muslim country..." that is problematic here. FYI using Fox News to try to understand the UK is like trying to run air traffic control with a Fischer-Price chatter telephone. Stating that I am ill-informed or blinded by bias when citing a yank source (who by their own definition are "entertainment news") as opposed to a serious broadcaster from the UK is quite the look. | | |
| ▲ | nullbio 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | You didn't answer the question. Do you not know how media works in the 21st century? They're republishing from UK sources. It was just the first hit on the SERPs because they have better SEO. Go find the original sources if you really want to. The point is that your country is putting people in prison for the dumbest reasons, and you apparently see no issue with it. | | |
| ▲ | Quarrelsome an hour ago | parent [-] | | > You didn't answer the question. Maybe don't use a source from the 1960s then. Victim cosplay is gross, so its no surprise I don't respond to it. Find me a contemporary source if you want to compare apples to apples. You want me to respond with some mostly irrelevant reference to ancient Greece or something? Cleon probably has a couple of tangential quotes we could explore. Yeah I know the source. Its the Torygraph. Once a mighty broadsheet but these days they print any old shit to get those boomer clicks and make them all upset. Tell them the world is falling apart to soften the blow of impending death. You're treating hospice fare as actual news you spanner. Anybody that is worth listening to doesn't focus on the Hamas part like that source does. They focus on the parts that violate the Equalities Act 2010 because they know what they're talking about. |
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| ▲ | DavidNielsen 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | On TERF island, I seriously doubt that. |
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| ▲ | DiogenesKynikos 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
| I don't know, but the UK has criminalized expressions of support for Palestine Action. They're dragging grannies off to prison just for holding up signs, and literally accusing them of supporting terrorism. |
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| ▲ | 4ndrewl 6 hours ago | parent [-] | | Well they proscribed PA, and showing support for a proscribed organisation _is_ a crime. | | |
| ▲ | NetMageSCW 6 hours ago | parent [-] | | But should that be possible? | | |
| ▲ | roryirvine 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | Many (perhaps even most) countries ban public acts of support for what they consider to be terrorist organisations. For example, the USA maintains a list of Foreign Terrorist Organizations, and penalities for providing support to those organisations are rather more severe than the in the UK. Whether or not Palestine Action should be proscribed is a different matter - their most serious action to date has been simply damaging military aircraft. Personally, I'd tend to say that proscription is too harsh a response for property damage with no violence against a person. I guess in the US that anyone doing something similar would simply have been killed, rather than their organisation being banned. That's not exactly great either! |
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