| ▲ | rurban 3 days ago |
| Untrue. TSMC is just building a state of the art chip factory in Dresden, and they are certainly using ASML. |
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| ▲ | ahartmetz 3 days ago | parent | next [-] |
| That fab unfortunately seems to be quite far from state of the art at 12 nm feature size. Source: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Semiconductor_Manufac... |
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| ▲ | flohofwoe 13 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | The fab itself can still be "state of the art" even when the product isn't (Germany needs chips for its industry, not for gaming PCs or AI data centers). | | |
| ▲ | dgellow 13 hours ago | parent [-] | | We actually need both. Part of the industry certainly needs “PC chips” |
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| ▲ | fulafel 12 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Current state of the art in feature sizes is 20 nm metal pitch / 45 nm gate pitch. | | |
| ▲ | ahartmetz 8 hours ago | parent [-] | | We both know that feature sizes became marketing names over a decade ago. The "12 nm" for that fab are of course the marketing name. In any case, it's a seriously old process at this point. |
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| ▲ | gregorygoc 13 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | There will be 2nm in Ireland | | |
| ▲ | petcat 13 hours ago | parent [-] | | Are you talking about Intel? That's the 7nm class and I've never seen anything about plans for the 20A/2nm generation at that fab. | | |
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| ▲ | rurban 3 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | Uh, so they are lying to us constantly.
First the said the new BOSCH fab in Dresden is for AI, with 28nm - ha! | | |
| ▲ | randomhacker123 12 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | You probably mixed it up with the Infineon Smart Power Fab. The Infineon Smart Power Fab was opened some months ago and builds power ICs for the energy market. Probably something like ACDC and DCAC converter ICs. This is also needed in AI data centers.
https://www.infineon.com/de/regional/dresden/smart-power-fab European Semiconductor Manufacturing Company (ESMC), the TSMC fab in Dresden is still under construction and will produce logic chips in 28nm or 16nm. Bosch, Infineon, and NXP each have 10% share in this fab. I assume that it will mostly produce products which will be sold by these 3 companies, probably just the next generations from what they already sell. This fab was 50% subsidized by the German government. GlobalFoundries also has a big 20nm Fab in Dresden. The most advanced logic fab in the EU is the Intel fab in Ireland. | |
| ▲ | flohofwoe 13 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Bosch never said that though, the "AI" stuff was about the production methods used in the fab (along with a couple other buzzwords), it was never claimed that the fab produces chips "for AI". Instead these are fairly simple controllers for the automotive industry. | |
| ▲ | moooo99 13 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Can you share any official communication where somebody claimed this fab was for AI? It was pretty clear that this fab - much like the other Bosch facilities - is going to be for automotive and industry ICs, not for high end node sizes in CPUs or GPUs. | | |
| ▲ | ahartmetz 12 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | I think I've read "power management chips for AI" somewhere. Probably technically correct, but also a somewhat gratuitous reference to the current thing for silly PR reasons. | | |
| ▲ | eternauta3k 11 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Not gratuitous, Infineon's stock price rose because of the AI datacenter demand. | |
| ▲ | moooo99 10 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | I don't think this is merely a gratuitous reference given the fact that AI demand is probably - among EVs - a key driver for the sales of power related ICs. |
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| ▲ | rurban 9 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Every local Dresden newspaper article and Bosch press release said so. |
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| ▲ | Fordec 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Since you know the truth, and on what date was that order put in? Why did it have to be in 2026 and not during the planning process in previous years? |
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| ▲ | petcat 12 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| > Untrue So you seem to know more about ASML's business than the ASML executive quoted in this article. |
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| ▲ | dathinab 12 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | since when are executives statements meant to produce more investment into them trustable? even more so it is reasonable to assume their (executive) statement was a simplification ignoring small for the overall statement irrelevant exceptions like ignoring there being a factory build which is small and only meant for older nodes producing embedded chips and is for the car industry only because honestly while the factory does matter for Bosh, it doesn't really make much difference for the larger picture of chip production in the EU | |
| ▲ | fn-mote 12 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | To be fair: 1. They provided evidence (construction of a fab in Dresden). 2. Executives lie all of the time. Aside: after all of the denunciations of AI companies claims of danger, I expected comments here to be denouncing this as a “ASML shill article trying to get the government to buy more of their product”. Not that I believe, but the contrast is striking. |
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| ▲ | amelius 11 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Yes, so TSMC is buying the machines, and they are based in Taiwan. This is not about the physical location of the machines. |
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| ▲ | AdamN 9 hours ago | parent [-] | | Most of their fabs are also in Taiwan. | | |
| ▲ | baobabKoodaa 7 hours ago | parent [-] | | The claim in OP is that "ASML currently sells no chipmaking machines in Europe". A single chipmaking machine purchase into a fab in Europe would be enough to prove that claim wrong. The number of fabs in Taiwan is irrelevant to this claim. |
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| ▲ | d2kx 12 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
| No, ASML is not lying about ASML's business developments. |
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| ▲ | usrnm 12 hours ago | parent [-] | | That would make it the only company in the world not doing that |
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