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jokoon an hour ago

I don't understand how an LLM is able to reason about those things

LLM use language, but it can't "think" about biochemistry

I saw that LLM have reasoning capabilities, which is different from machine learning, but I don't understand how it works.

ttul a few seconds ago | parent | next [-]

Here's my grok of it: Deep learning models progressively abstract a concept presented at the input by passing the input through many sequential layers () until an output layer transforms the output of the final layer into something interpretable, such as an indication of what token to predict next, or a classification, or whatever. The transformer architecture futhermore offers layers that allow different parts of the previous layer's output to sort of mix with each other in complex ways. As you get into greater levels of abstraction, the attention process is mixing very abstract concepts with each other in a nonetheless highly structured manner. I believe this is where the intelligence lives.

sometimes with residual connections, but we can ignore that for sake of simplicity.

Aromasin 21 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

An interesting talk I heard at a conference once, that I can neither remember the speaker for or speak to their legitimacy, suggested that we might have some lower form of intelligence encoded into our language. They posed the idea that we have enough unique words, and combination of words, that it starts to have reason unto itself similar to how our neurons and their connection breed intelligence. The idea was that we as humans have baked intelligence into our own speech patterns. It seemed a little to abstract for me, but potentially goes a little way to explaining how a statistical averaging algorithm with some randomness, at scale, starts to look like it very occasionally has a genuinely novel thought.

beedeebeedee 7 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

I thought that was how most people understood LLM’s capabilities? We have spent millenia creating language to map onto our world. Therefore, implicit in that language is a simulacrum of our world.

andy99 8 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

It’s not a statistical language model, it’s a reinforcement learning model that’s been tuned to do these tasks. The language is the way it communicates (and of course it’s formulated as an autoregressive classifier that outputs next token probabilities, but it’s not really using some property of language to arrive at the results.

Barbing 9 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Does that help explain why learning a word for something can help understand the concept of it?

plastic-enjoyer 4 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

Interesting. Would this apply to any rich enough system of expression, like music or art? Or is there something specific about language that makes it different?

jnwatson 24 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The cure for HER2- metastatic breast cancer is a simple matter of ...

Please predict the next word.

Intelligence is implicit in language understanding. The best possible next-word-predictor is omniscient.

Avicebron 11 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

> The best possible next-word-predictor is omniscient.

Omniscient for the set of "meaning" embedded into it's training set. It's not broadly omniscient, big difference.

layer8 6 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

What does omniscience have to do with reasoning? If you know everything, you don’t have to reason. But these next-word-predictors aren’t omniscient.

sobellian 13 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

The cure for HER2- metastatic breast cancer is a simple matter of [intensive well-funded research]

That wasn't too hard, maybe I'm superintelligent?

amelius 32 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Nobody knows how it works, really. It just turned out that if you try to predict the next word then you get intelligent behavior, depending on amount of training data, and the size and topology of the network. But again, nobody knows why, and what the limits are.

cj 3 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

That’s my and probably most people’s understanding.

I have a feeling we know more than that about how it works.

tomrod 23 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Agreed. We went this direction for our golems, djinns, and other mechanistic minds because we believe it sort of reflects the primitives of our own neurons (which we also don't fully grok).

chrsw 18 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

I heard someone who studies this sort of thing say basically what biological neurons are trying to do is predict as well. Predicting what exactly? I’m not sure. The next time they should fire or something. I can’t find the YouTube video now.

pas 28 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Intelligence as a measure of the ability to define predictive models of certain problems (and their solutions).

Promoting LLMs is encoding the problem we want into the query vectors, and through the magic of the complex training and the power of operations in a very large dimensional abstract space the AI can manipulate the representations, and iteratively approximate solutions. (And using bigger and bigger contexts and better encodings it can form better models.)

password54321 34 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Compression and understanding are correlated.

sanex an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

How do you think? I think with words.

tcgv 34 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

Do you have an internal monologue?

I don't. I seem to think at a more abstract, pre-verbal level rather than through an internal voice.

Some studies suggest that frequent internal monologue may occur in roughly 30–50% of people [1], but the research is based on relatively small samples.

[1] https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/intersections/202304...

pvab3 24 minutes ago | parent [-]

I have different modes depending on what I'm doing, but I think usually I'm reasoning non-verbally

tomrod 20 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

These days, words. When I was in an environment where language swapping between 4 to 5 languages was common, I thought in pictures and described it in the correct language for the audience. It was a plasticity mind trip.

Also saved pesos on the charge-per-text SMS schemes the local phone companies used because we could embed information across so many options.

AgentMatt 32 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

How do you know that it's the words driving the thinking, rather than the stream of words just being an observable trace tacked onto the actual thinking?

smt88 44 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

My friend has aphantasia and cannot think with words, sounds, or pictures.

msephton 10 minutes ago | parent [-]

How do they describe how they think?

caycep 39 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Granted, I feel like munging gigabytes of text data (i.e. G, A, T and Cs) would be something LLMs would be good at

makerofthings 43 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I imagine it's writing a story about a character doing those things and then reading the story and acting on it.

woeirua 42 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

AI is way beyond conventional LLM architecture now. It combines LLMs with search + RL. The traditional LLM architecture hit a wall around GPT-4o. Arc AGI evals show this.

Buttons840 36 minutes ago | parent [-]

All that extra is clear as day compared to the mystery of how neural network training decides to divide and balance the weights in even small neutral networks.

We can, at best, approach a good set of weights, even in tiny neural networks.

Imagine if we found a way to calculate the exact optimal weights for a given loss function. I mean, there is an exact optimal solution, it exists, but we can't find it exactly, even for a neural network with just 50 parameters.

pishpash 32 minutes ago | parent [-]

There is no point in that because the loss function itself is already an approximation. No one knows what is the exact loss function for any given non-trivial real-world task.

stalfie 35 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

No worries, no one does. Exactly like no one knows how the brain reasons either.

Buttons840 41 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I don't think anyone knows, not even the LLMs.

I mean, the subtlety of the neural network weights that emerge from training are not fully comprehended by anyone, man or machine.

Every individual calculation is understood, and every step of training is understood, but the exact nature of those weights that divide the responsibility of responding to subtle changes of input in intelligent ways is beyond me.

the_real_cher an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

It's really good at pattern recognition.

So I'm not sure how it knows to be 'surprised' that alone is pretty fascinating.

wetpaws an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

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