| ▲ | tremon 3 hours ago |
| Why the myopic focus on profitability? Only one nation has succeeded in making healthcare profitable, please tell us how that has led to the best outcome for society? |
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| ▲ | JumpCrisscross 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] |
| Power is an input. If it isn’t profitable it needs to be subsidized from elsewhere. Healthcare is the same. It just turns out subsidizing it from wages works because healthy people are more productive. Profitability isn’t a hard limit. But if something isn’t internally profitable, it requires an external partner to get going. |
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| ▲ | Klaus23 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Because for power creation there are alternatives, but for healthcare there aren't. Renewables are cheap now and they also solve the sovereignty issue. Ideally we could use land currently dedicated to energy crops to install solar panels that operate at a significantly higher efficiency. |
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| ▲ | ImJamal 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | Many countries do not have the raw materials to build solar, wind turbines, and batteries so it doesn't solve the sovereignty issue. | | |
| ▲ | dalyons 3 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | An awful lot more countries in the world have the potential to sovereign manufacture relatively simple renewables than the massive engineering in reactors | |
| ▲ | triceratops 20 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | That's like saying oil-producing countries aren't sovereign unless they also manufacture oil drills and pumps and pipes and tanks. The sun is an oil well. Panels are drills or pumps. Batteries are oil tanks. Not having oil drill and oil tank factories in your country isn't a critical energy sovereignty issue. | |
| ▲ | AndrewDucker an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | Once you have a solar panel you can't be cut off from using it. It's not like oil where you need regular deliveries forever. | | |
| ▲ | ImJamal an hour ago | parent [-] | | Sure, but when your existing ones break or you need more you can have issues. | | |
| ▲ | triceratops 22 minutes ago | parent [-] | | > when your existing ones break They last 25 years. Enough time to spin up domestic manufacturing if you're really paranoid. > or you need more Lots of countries manufacture them today. |
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| ▲ | jacquesm 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Because for healthcare profit isn't a motive to begin with (or at least, it shouldn't be) and there aren't many different alternative sources for it either. |
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| ▲ | Muromec an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | Neither it is for nuclear. It fixes the externality | |
| ▲ | palata 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Healthcare is profitable like schools are, or roads, or public transportation, or sanitary systems: the goal is for us a society to live better. When something is profitable in the sense that a few oligarchs make more an more money, I see it as a bug, not a feature. |
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| ▲ | frumplestlatz 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
| And in a society that hasn’t made health care profitable (Italy), I waited 12 hours, literally on the floor, with a broken arm and covered in my own blood, before I was seen after a motorcycle accident. I literally would’ve been better off flying to New York. I still have scars and nerve damage from the incredibly poor care in Italy’s medical system. In the US, I was rushed into the ER in an ambulance and seen immediately after a car hit me while I was bicycling — and that was just because they were worried about the speed at which the accident occurred. They had me patched up within the hour. I was fine, road rash and sore for a couple weeks. There’s no silver bullet here, but I’m very sure that healthcare is not a good analogy for nuclear power. I’m also very sure that anyone that advocates for government healthcare should try actually using it in one of these countries. I hope you enjoy waiting and long-term adverse health effects from poor, delayed, and inaccessible care. |
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| ▲ | ktzar 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | I had an non urgent injury in Spain last week. Went to A&E and was seen by a doctor, x-rayed, and given advice and the results within 90 minutes. I paid zero euros for that on top of my taxes. Maybe it's an Italian problem... And for sure Spain has its own issues as well, but private is not always necessarily better. | | |
| ▲ | hunterpayne 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | I've lived in Spain a couple years ago. I've seen the quality of its health care. Its easily 20 years behind the US and that's being charitable. The family that lived next to me had a man who had the exact same break I had had 20 years before. He had worse, more primitive care than I did in the US decades before. I had to explain to them why it was a bad idea for him to sit in his wheelchair all day because nobody in the Spanish system seemed to know how to care for a simple broken leg. You got what you paid for... PS Spanish taxes are absurdly high...insurance in the US is still cheaper than the difference in taxes between the two countries. All that and an actual working economy and energy system. | |
| ▲ | frumplestlatz an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | Sometimes it works — but the overall quality, speed, and care outcomes remain, on average, very poor when compared to the US. The price is only good if you ignore the outcomes and what you’re paying on the backend through taxes. |
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| ▲ | amarcheschi 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | >I’m also very sure that anyone that advocates for government healthcare should try actually using it in one of these countries I actually do since I'm Italian lol Don't get me wrong, what has happened to you feels at best a bad practice, at worst something that goes on the news or that has a legal proceeding afterwards. I've known people with good and bad experiences, I can't complain too much about it. Can I ask in which region? Italian Healthcare is somewhat region-dependant | | | |
| ▲ | Mawr an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | > I waited 12 hours, literally on the floor, with a broken arm and covered in my own blood, before I was seen after a motorcycle accident. So literally just a broken limb. Non-life threatening, can wait. Sorry, triage is a bitch. Some patients will literally die within minutes/hours if not actively treated. Go figure. > In the US, I was rushed into the ER in an ambulance The second they dispatch an ambulance, you owe them how much exactly these days? $5000? | | |
| ▲ | belowavgiq a few seconds ago | parent | next [-] | | You lost any credibility with the $5000 comment. You have no idea how the american system works and I'm not even american.
Your snarky tone is absolutely disgusting, I would love for you to receive the same answer when talking about some health issue caused by terrible healthcare. Terminally online people like you who lose all empathy when something they believe in is criticized are very funny and sad at the same time. | |
| ▲ | frumplestlatz 42 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | A broken limb, fractured elbow, deep cuts/lacerations/abrasions on my legs, elbow, and arms. I was in pain, my wounds were filled with gravel and dirt, and I just closed my eyes and laid on the floor and disassociated for twelve fucking hours. My girlfriend was losing her shit trying to advocate for me. Subjectively applied, uncaring triage that leaves people poorly cared for is exactly what happens when you lack sufficient capacity, aren’t paying your staff enough to care, and staff’s incentives aren’t sufficiently tied to their outcomes. My father, an ER doctor in the US, was losing his shit over their quality of care when I FaceTimed him afterwards. Your lack of compassion is also exactly what produces these kinds of systems. Who cares about the actual outcomes or the affected individuals, as long as your ideological ideals aren’t challenged. > The second they dispatch an ambulance, you owe them how much exactly these days? $5000? Sure. My insurance covered all of it. The driver’s insurance reimbursed my own. And even if they hadn’t, I’d rather be in the hole financially than spend 12 hours in pain and have persistent issues caused by free health care doing a hack job putting me back together. The US healthcare system isn’t perfect, but I’ve got at least another four decades left on this planet, and the cost of US healthcare is nothing compared to not living out those decades in a body that’s as healthy as possible. |
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