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jonlong a day ago

No, OpenAI did not solve the "wrong" Navier-Stokes problem. OpenAI did not solve the hardest version of the problem (unforced blow-up), but did give a solution to the Clay Millennium Prize Problem as written and understood, choosing the explicitly allowed forced option.

SciAm writes "in a sense, the LLM found and exploited a loophole in the framing of the question". This is pure sensationalism. Choosing option (C) (out of an explicit list of four options) is neither a "loophole" nor something "found by the LLM"; everyone involved knew this was the option they were pursuing.

With the grumbling out the way, there is some actual scientific content to the article: there's a strong argument that OpenAI's method will not extend to the unforced case, leaving our understanding of NS incomplete. This negative result is itself new and interesting (and predicated entirely on the solution found by OpenAI)!

HarHarVeryFunny a day ago | parent | next [-]

As I understand it the "loophole", if you want to call it that, is that OpenAI's custom-designed forcing function was smooth, as the rules said it had to be, but was non-analytic, consisting of some construction of "compactly supported bump functions", meaning a mass of tiny little pushes at precise points of space and time to push a vortex into blowing up the math.

hotdog1492 a day ago | parent [-]

Reminds me of Maxwell's Demon.

dist-epoch a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Or a better framing: Clay Institute chose the wrong Navier-Stokes problem for a Millennium Prize.

seanhunter 21 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Not really. All of the Navier-Stokes options in the Clay Institute formulation of the prize are real problems of significant interest. The history of this particular problem is of finding specific conditions under which we can get something to work that turn out not to generalize in ways that people don’t expect eg iirc (It’s been a while since I read about it) there was a solution found early-ish in the 20th century for the 2-D case that turned out not to generalize to N-d, N>2 case, there are special conditions under which the turbulent terms cancel out and you can get smooth flow, vortices etc.

It seems to me that formulating problems at the boundary of human knowledge precisely is always going to be challenging and situations are bound to occur where you look back with the benefit of hindsight and wish that you had posed the question slightly differently based on some knowledge you didn’t have at the time.

glimshe a day ago | parent | prev [-]

Yet it had remained unsolved until OpenAI's effort...

p-e-w a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> SciAm writes "in a sense, the LLM found and exploited a loophole in the framing of the question".

God, it’s embarrassing to read stuff like this. They’re making it seem as if everyone involved was either stupid or dishonest just so they can pretend they have a scoop here.

a day ago | parent [-]
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hn_throwaway_99 a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Totally agree. I wouldn't quite call it clickbait, but the article does this thing I find annoying where it puts the "sensationalist" framing at the beginning (the "loophole" quote you put), but then closer to the end fully admits that it wasn't really a loophole in any case:

> It did, however, unambiguously solve the problem according to the Clay Institute’s original formulation. The official problem statement, penned in 2000 by mathematician Charles Fefferman, offers an option called “C,” in which solutions are allowed to use an external force like OpenAI’s.

casey2 16 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

It's just moving the goalposts, this happens every time an AI solves a problem, doesn't matter if the goalposts were there for 26 years.

What's interesting is that there are a set of people who are "in charge" and can as they wish arbitrarily set the goalposts to the thing that they happen to be best at. While this might be satisfying for an Humanity vs AI narrative, it's concerning for an us vs them one. Are these people really special? or do they just change the rules of the game so that outsiders (human or AI) can't win.

If it was you or I that solved this problem our would our rewards stop at $1M? Or would we get authority? If the achievement earns that for an insider but becomes 'just a solved problem' when an outsider does it, what exactly is being rewarded?

cyanydeez 16 hours ago | parent [-]

AI, the new minority!