| ▲ | lwansbrough 2 hours ago |
| Anyone else more excited about Chinese models than American models these days? Big thing for me is affordability. |
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| ▲ | joshheitzman 26 minutes ago | parent | next [-] |
| Absolutely! DeepSeek-V4-Flash-0731 has become my daily driver. It's pretty amazing what it can do for what it costs at deepinfra.com (I don't use deepseek as a provider since they train on your data [at least their honest about it]). GLM-5.1 was my daily driver before that and Kimi K2.5 before that. |
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| ▲ | tristanMatthias 5 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | How does it compare to 4.1 flash? Curious why folks don’t use the more “modern” one. | |
| ▲ | kingforaday 16 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | Are you finding DS better then kimi k3 and glm-5.3? Do you mind sharing your primary use case? |
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| ▲ | tacomagick 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Absolutely! Chinese models are both cheaper and more capable in many cases, compared to the American models and their makers continuously fumbling or reducing model capability with each update. Deepseek decreased costs when they released Flash 4.1 you would not see any American company do this, in reverse they would try charge you more. |
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| ▲ | user43928 an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | OpenAI decreased prices with the 5.6 model family. And later they further cut Sol and Terra pricing by 20% (maybe only in the API) and Luna by 80%. In fact Luna still outperformed DeepSeek Flash 4.1 in cost per task on Artificial Analysis when I last checked. However, Luna is slightly less intelligent. I have a feeling that it's pretty dumb and prone to hallucination unless running at xhigh or max effort, where it somehow manages to work quite well. I did not personally test the open weight models beyond the old Qwen 3.6 27B, which produced unusably bad results for me. The competition is great, and I hope Chinese models will continue to force leading US labs to offer models at a low price point. That said, I don't think the Chinese labs have anything over OpenAI and Anthropic when it comes to capability or efficiency - I have no reason not to believe the US labs have even lower cost to serve the models. | | |
| ▲ | tacomagick an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | OpenAI had to cut costs because of Anthropic. I also do not trust the benchmarks when it comes to models anymore. I have tried both Claude and OpenAI models and while it is true that the 5.6 series is smarter than Deepseek (at the time i tested it against 4.0) at that price it is still not worth it and sometimes randomly refuses to do tasks or stops midway etc. Do also remember China is this far in the AI race despite all chip restrictions from America. If they were in equal standards I truly think Chinese models would have long surpassed American ones. Also would like to remind how Anthropic CEO is being hostile and blaming Chinese models with distilling meanwhile their own models claimed to be Qwen¹ and their stance against open models is negative² and they still keep blaming China for it. 1- https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48671252 2-https://www.anthropic.com/news/position-open-weights-models | | |
| ▲ | goosejuice an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | > Also would like to remind how Anthropic CEO is being hostile and blaming Chinese models with distilling Why wouldn't he? If there really was 25,000 accounts breaking ToS any CEO would at minimum be upset. Evidence of Claude distilling qwen would be damning but that a) makes no sense b) doesn't exist afaik. | |
| ▲ | user43928 an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | Not sure about that. Given the difference in compute, it seems plausible. However, the researchers at the US labs are surely no less talented, and they have better access to hire talent globally. They too have to serve their models efficiently at a large scale, and with current capacity constraints this must be a top priority. |
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| ▲ | Implicated 37 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | > I did not personally test the open weight models beyond the old Qwen 3.6 27B, which produced unusably bad results for me. So you don't have much perspective on things, it seems. Let me introduce you to the GLM 5.2 and then 5.3/5.3 flash series of... "oh, wow, I should have bought some RTX PRO 6000's while they were 'cheap'" stage of progression. As someone carrying multiple max subscriptions to both claude and codex - primary workhorse is glm 5.3 flash running on rented GPUs for less than a latte/hr. I also found qwen 3.6 27B nearly useless for my own needs. DS4 flash 0731 and then 4.1 have been nearly as eye opening as glm 5.3 flash, but have their own warts. |
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| ▲ | goosejuice an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | > Deepseek decreased costs when they released Flash 4.1 you would not see any American company do this, in reverse they would try charge you more. OpenAI reduced prices and Anthropic increased weekly usage limits. |
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| ▲ | SyneRyder an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Yep, I'm trending in that direction, and I'm someone with Claude stickers all over my laptop. My main app dev work is still going to Claude, but everything else is going to China even at API rates now. One simple task: I needed an LLM to go through and clean up a few thousand page descriptions and titles in my personal search engine index, where the human web page authors had put in no effort sigh. I did a shoot out between Claude, Luna, GLM 5.3 Flash and Deepseek. Despite the high cost, Claude's descriptions were terrible, and even Opus warned me that the descriptions coming back from Haiku were "generalized, not accurate". I expected I would choose Luna because of price, and occasionally it did have wonderful descriptions (one captured emotion in a way no other model did). But in the end, the GLM 5.3 Flash descriptions were the easiest to read, they flow well while also being accurate & including necessary keywords, and being highly affordable. So it won out. It's a task that is nowhere near frontier, but a task where somehow China is better than frontier. |
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| ▲ | rapind an hour ago | parent [-] | | API rates still aren’t quite competitive with the OpenAI x20 accounts, but they are definitely getting close with deepseek 4.1 flash. I spent a few days with only 4.1 and was very impressed. |
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| ▲ | bellowsgulch 32 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Yes, an expensive American LLM has zero capabilities as far as I’m concerned because I’m never going to pay for it. |
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| ▲ | verdverm an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I have a contrarian opinion that China passing America in Ai is the Sputnik moment we need to leave the hubris behind and get our mojo back debatable if a turn around is possible before '29 |
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| ▲ | swingandamiss 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
| No, because I'd rather not support our economic and military rivals. |
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| ▲ | lwansbrough 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | I'm Canadian so this sentiment has little value in 2026 unfortunately. | | |
| ▲ | ActionHank an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | Also, frankly, as a fellow Canadian it's pretty clear that the biggest "rival" the US has right now is itself. Just passed out in the corner puking on itself shouting about all the foreigners who won't talk to it. | | | |
| ▲ | tancop an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I'm from Europe and I hate America way more than China now. Used to be about equal but then Trump started extorting Ukraine, threatening their own allies and sending billions to Israel to help with a genocide. I think that exposed America for what it really is. | | |
| ▲ | boelboel 21 minutes ago | parent [-] | | China is enabling russia way more than trump, China doesn't care too much about 'morals' either. Chinese companies have been quite important in the construction sector of the WB settlements. Even though I'm not a great fan of Trump I don't see a reason at all to prefer the chinese. |
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| ▲ | scottyah an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | [flagged] | | |
| ▲ | lwansbrough an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | Because at present the pedophile US president is making it his mission to molest my country. China, for all its faults (including espionage, which the US is also guilty of) is mostly focused on conducting trade. | |
| ▲ | verdverm an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | Half of Canada now uses the word 'enemy' when asked for an adjective to describe America or China. We're equivalent in their eyes now because we elected Trump a second time and all that he has said and done in 2.0 | | |
| ▲ | cwillu an hour ago | parent [-] | | It's closer to a cousin you used to be close with despite some moral failings, but who has now has a substance abuse problem and is lashing out at family and friends. Not an enemy, just a danger. | | |
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| ▲ | rayiner an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Canadians warming up to China makes me think of Germany becoming increasingly reliant on Russia in the 2010s. | | |
| ▲ | rapind 42 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | Murica just has a MAGA problem. We can still be friends if and when you sort that out. Us Canadians like most of you quite a lot. | |
| ▲ | cgio an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Yes, someone can still blow up a pipe and they look the other way. On the other hand, you can also draw parallels to themselves becoming increasingly reliant on US vs UK in the past. | |
| ▲ | an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | [deleted] |
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| ▲ | zemvpferreira 36 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | As much as the US has been easy to hate lately, I don't hesitate to say Xi Jinping as the most powerful man on Earth would be much, much worse. |
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| ▲ | joshheitzman 24 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Does it count as supporting a rival if your an American using an American inference provider self-hosting an open weight model from a Chinese lab? | |
| ▲ | Freedom2 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Agreed, and also because I support freedom of speech! | | |
| ▲ | girvo 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | Neither the US nor the Chinese companies are on your side then. They both censor, just different topics. But at least I can run Chinese models locally, and strip a lot of that censorship/refusal. |
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