Remix.run Logo
stymaar 3 hours ago

n-gram per-layer embeddings[1][2] might be it.

[1] https://sebastianraschka.com/llm-architecture-gallery/per-la...

[2]: See DS 4.1-Flash and Qwen-3.8-Next.

verdverm 3 hours ago | parent [-]

this is to offload VRAM to DRAM (for GP comment), and makes no difference for URAM

zozbot234 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

You can definitely offload n-gram embeddings to storage; they're very sparsely used (only a few KB fetched per token) so this is quite effective. Loading to DRAM only becomes necessary if they are a bottleneck to overall performance (which might happen if you're doing very wide batches and everything else uses super fast VRAM/HBM).

verdverm 2 hours ago | parent [-]

I was looking at the qwen-next-flash, and the weights would fill my OEM Spark on their own, before the n-gram. I'm unclear if offloading to disk can work here, is that what you are implying is possible?!

girvo 2 hours ago | parent [-]

Check out eugr’s TP=1 sparkrun recipe :)

It’s an NVFP4 quant, but it fits, and is surprisingly capable.

verdverm 2 hours ago | parent [-]

do you have a HF link? HF search is not uncovering it for me

(or is it somewhere else)

girvo 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

https://github.com/spark-arena/eugr-recipes/blob/main/recipe...

This one!

I'd recommend pointing your agent at it (after installing sparkrun), and asking it to research the absolute latest in TP=1 Flash-Next - mine grabbed particular vLLM nightlies and mods to improve performance, and it was well worth it.

verdverm 2 hours ago | parent [-]

I have a quirky vLLM on k8s on 2x OEM sparks setup with 9 models available to me. I'm not keen to run nightly vLLM, too many issues with it in the past. Going the qwen-next path means displacing things I use daily :/

I have a watchful eye on the diffusion ~ Jev/Kev PR

https://github.com/vllm-project/vllm/pull/57250

girvo 2 hours ago | parent [-]

For what it's worth, Flash Next outperforms every other model that is available to us on the GB10 in all of my testing; though if you have two sparks then the TP=2 version is even better and easier (I don't think you'll need the nightly for that at all, just use the recipe)

I'm so tempted to buy a second one...

verdverm an hour ago | parent [-]

prices have gone up quite a bit...

I'm running embedding, reranking, and policy tuned models too, and a Jev/Kev when that's landed. Flash Next is not a substitute for those

I have OpenCode/Fireworks to access big models

verdverm 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

looks like this is likely it

https://github.com/spark-arena/eugr-recipes

https://github.com/eugr/spark-vllm-docker

girvo 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Nah, I’m streaming ngrams off NVMe on my Spark-alike right now. Works surprisingly well (except for when I accidentally bottlenecked it through my NAS)

jkingsman 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

What kind of throughput do you see on what models?

girvo an hour ago | parent | next [-]

GB10 boxes have way more compute than they have memory bandwidth, which nicely fits medium sized MoE models with speculative execution (MTP, DSpark/DFlash, etc)

Qwen 3.8 Flash Next (what I'm running basically entirely now) sees 30 / 35.0 / 45 tk/s for prose, analysis and code respectively for actual use (not short context benchmarking) with Pi. Thinking blocks are ~35tk/s or so.

The GB10 having so much compute is great for prefill too, 2000-3000/s for 14k to 64k token prompts (cold cache too) in the quick benchmark I did. 3500tk/s for warm cache which is nice :)

When I accidentally streamed my ngrams over the 2.5Gb/s network, it cut all the throughput down in half basically. Especially notable for the time-to-first-token, which is what clued me in that I'd messed up somehow!

For Qwen 3.8 27B, I got it up to a consistent 20tk-25tk/s but 27B thinks so much that it was honestly too painful: Flash Next is as smart, as useful, but much faster for real agentic dev usage IMO

Laguna S 2.1 saw similar numbers to Flash Next if I remember right, but their latest updates means it doesn't quite fit a GB10 128GB anymore at full context which is a shame.

Note: these are all NVFP4 quants (usually a dynamic one where some tensor layers are left at full precision though)

verdverm an hour ago | parent [-]

I personally stopped caring as much about the tok/s as the agents are largely in the background, and so have also moved preference from MoE to dense

I want to see about fine-tuning these models a bit on the GB10 to tame that over thinking and some other behaviors (like using tools I don't use)

qwen 3.8 seems to have been trained with some `rkt` that messes with tool outputs to "save tokens"

verdverm an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

check out the spark arena website, its the raison d'etre

verdverm 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

interesting, peer comment seems to indicate this is a possibility as well, will have to take a deeper look

petu 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

n-grams can be kept on SSD, no need to hold them in any kind of RAM (at least w/o batching)

stymaar 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Am I missing a joke? WTF is URAM?

verdverm 2 hours ago | parent [-]

unified memory, not sure if anyone uses URAM, I human hallucinated it