The current wars in Europe and the Middle East paradoxically push the world towards non-fossil enery like few things did before. Both oil and natural gas prices have skyrocketed on global markets, and will likely rise more, as Ukraine continues to target Russian oil infrastructure, and Houtis continue to stymie Saudi oil exports.

Nothing hampers solar, wind, and batteries though; at worst it takes longer to ship the key components from China to Europe around Africa.

▲ leonidasrup 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

The current wars in Europe and the Middle East could paradoxically push the world towards more domestic energy production, be it fossil or non-fossil energy.

For example in reaction to 1973 Arab oil embargo Carter boosted energy efficiency and solar and promoted coal.

" "America indeed is the Saudi Arabia of coal, and my goal as President of the United States is to see on the world energy markets Arab oil replaced with Illinois coal," Carter told miners and employees of the Old Ben Coal Mine No. 25. He also boasted that the country would, "produce more coal in 1980 than has ever before been produced in the United States of America." "

https://www.npr.org/2024/12/29/1158426645/jimmy-carters-envi...

New coal gasification projects in India

https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/india-clears-4-billi...

	▲	PorciiVorbesc 5 minutes ago \| parent [-]
		>The current wars in Europe and the Middle East could paradoxically push the world towards more domestic energy production, be it fossil or non-fossil energy. Fossil fuel is still going strong and will probably stay so for the next 50 years. Like I just learned Taiwan makes most of its energy from coal and LNG and is set to denuclearize, which blew my mind given their cutting edge manufacturing economy, but kinda makes sense when you factor in their geography and geopolitics.

▲ PorciiVorbesc 27 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

>Nothing hampers solar, wind, and batteries though; at worst it takes longer to ship the key components from China to Europe around Africa.

Except you know, all the actual mining and manufacturing of those things, which isn't in the west but mostly in China.

▲ nine_k 5 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

Before, say, 2022 or 2026 for that reason, oil, coal, lithium, silicon, iron, etc were mined, processed, and shipped as usual. By now, the production and shipping of oil and oil-based fuels, and, to a lesser extent, LNG is hampered by wars. The production and shipping of what is required to build solar, wind, and even nuclear power sources continues, mostly unaffected by the wars, which makes these power sources relatively (even) more attractive.

Sadly, it does not mean that EU or USA grew less dependent on China for solar panels, industrial chemicals, or a lot of other things. OTOH, they did not grow more dependent either.

▲ dalyons 25 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

so what if theyre made in china?

▲ PorciiVorbesc 23 minutes ago | parent [-]

  So what if all our oil comes from the middle east?

  So what if all our gas comes from Russia?

  So what if all chips are made in Taiwan?

Hopefully the penny will start to drop. Any minute now.

	▲	nazgul17 11 minutes ago \| parent \| next [-]
		But we are not buying oil or gas. We are buying hardware that will generate electricity for decades. I do hope the US turns around. As I see it, we (western countries) have aligned values and it's better for us all (US included) to stick together.
	▲	3eb7988a1663 16 minutes ago \| parent \| prev \| next [-]
		You burn a barrel of oil once. A solar panel lasts for 20+ years. After you have installed it, if China announces they will no longer sell new ones - you have two decades of lead time to start building your own domestically.
	▲	thatfrenchguy 18 minutes ago \| parent \| prev [-]
		Except you burn the oil once and keep the solar panel and batteries for one or two decades

▲ jiggawatts 25 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

> Nothing hampers solar, wind, and batteries though;

For now.

The majority of solar panels are made in China (85%), and they plan to invade Taiwan in just a few years, possibly as soon as 2027, at which point either we let them take control of AI chip production or defend Taiwan and cut ourselves off from the source of almost all manufactured products, and especially solar panels.

	▲	PorciiVorbesc 19 minutes ago \| parent \| next [-]
		>and they plan to invade Taiwan in just a few years Can you share your sources for that valuable intelligence? Military analysts would really be interested to learn that. Or is that form the same manufacturing scaremongering genre as "Iran is 6 weeks away from building nuclear weapons" and "Iraq has WMDs" to justify endless defense spending, military interventions and warmongering. > at which point either we let them take control of AI chip production You can't just commandeer semi fabs like you're carjacking a Hyundai for a joyride. Semi fabs need constant parts and on-prem staff and always-on telemetry from ASML & family to run. If that's gone, you're left with a very expensive warehouse that can't do shit.
	▲	seanmcdirmid 24 minutes ago \| parent \| prev \| next [-]
		Taiwan cannot make chips without western inputs and spare parts, so China taking over Taiwan or Korea or Japan doesn’t really give them access to making those chips.
	▲	rainsford 12 minutes ago \| parent \| prev [-]
		But the solar panels we already have don't suddenly stop working, which is an important difference between sourcing solar panels from a potential enemy and sourcing raw fossil fuels from one. There's also nothing stopping the US or other trading partners from making solar panels, China is just the most convenient and cheapest source as it is for many other things. And to that point, the end of trade between the US and China would be incredibly damaging to both countries whether or not we buy solar panels from them now.